Comments on: 08-04-17 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/ Promoting Science and Critical Thinking Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:04:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Trevor http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-2307 Trevor Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:25:02 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-2307 Despite the obvious purpose of this documentary (to negate the evidence for evolution and promote religion), it prompted me to go out and learn more about evolution. I say shame on Mr. Stein for using the holocaust as a vehicle to promote creationism. Furthermore, religious fanaticism has the been at the heart of human conflict since recorded history. How much blood has been shed in the name of god? Despite the obvious purpose of this documentary (to negate the evidence for evolution and promote religion), it prompted me to go out and learn more about evolution. I say shame on Mr. Stein for using the holocaust as a vehicle to promote creationism.

Furthermore, religious fanaticism has the been at the heart of human conflict since recorded history. How much blood has been shed in the name of god?

]]> By: Roger L. Satterlee http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-1497 Roger L. Satterlee Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:59:01 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-1497 Hi, I've been reading Steven Pinker, and I am very open to his premises, the evolutionary psychology view or emergence, etc.. I find it interesting that he was certain of his atheist stand at age 13. This I can identify with. I find it harder to identify with a late comer, and wonder if the authoritarian/dominance motivations of your flavor of intellect is as fair-minded concerning the amount of moral authority you seem to need. I have a little saying of my own which I no doubt over apply but, it seems clearer every year that Science is the 'religion' with the most objective evidence...: ) I think it is fair for Maher to feel a little uncertain how to completely eliminate a very likely impossible entity when he openly admits that he is not sure what he is targeting. I don't have a compelling conception of that which I am to eradicate from my consciousness either. Yahweh, sure, no problem, but I don't mind admitting complete ignorance of the quantum physics model of a universal 'deity', whatever...it is of course out of my depth... : \ I am forced in all fairness to admit that I do not know that which I do not know. I do suspect, though, my flavor of being will not meet with your authoritarian-styled cult of of official "atheism"....: ) Thanks, Rog Hi,
I’ve been reading Steven Pinker, and I am very open to his premises, the evolutionary psychology view or emergence, etc.. I find it interesting that he was certain of his atheist stand at age 13. This I can identify with. I find it harder to identify with a late comer, and wonder if the authoritarian/dominance motivations of your flavor of intellect is as fair-minded concerning the amount of moral authority you seem to need. I have a little saying of my own which I no doubt over apply but, it seems clearer every year that Science is the ‘religion’ with the most objective evidence…: ) I think it is fair for Maher to feel a little uncertain how to completely eliminate a very likely impossible entity when he openly admits that he is not sure what he is targeting. I don’t have a compelling conception of that which I am to eradicate from my consciousness either. Yahweh, sure, no problem, but I don’t mind admitting complete ignorance of the quantum physics model of a universal ‘deity’, whatever…it is of course out of my depth… : \ I am forced in all fairness to admit that I do not know that which I do not know. I do suspect, though, my flavor of being will not meet with your authoritarian-styled cult of of official “atheism”….: )

Thanks,

Rog

]]> By: Mike D. http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-1460 Mike D. Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:46:36 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-1460 fullofdoubt, I would like to address your concerns point by point. Yes we should learn the lessons of Hitler. I thought this had already been done but evidently not. Understanding evolution in some depth, one should realize humans are all related and very equal as a species. One lesson Ben left out of the Hitler story was that The Nazi's were Christian Catholics. They felt Jews were unbelievers of Jesus therefore soul-less and therefore subhuman. Atheists don't believe in this 'soul', so therefore this idealism is less likely to evolve. Second,no evolutionists don't know for sure where life first started but there are some good hypothosis's out there. To give the credit to God is only playing the 'god of the gaps' card.God theory has no mechanism for creating life either. So why even think that? Probably because that book where all that war you spoke of made this incredible claim.The bible. Third, yes it would have been nice to have better eyes and some wings but evolution only gives for what is needed too survive. We obviously survived. Our large brains and use of language gave us the tools needed to overcome lack of other strengths. This is exactly how evolution works. If god created us, then whats his excuse for not giving us better bodies? If he is perfect and we are supposed to be created in his image, then why are we not a perfect bodied being? Fourth, Energy does change into matter. Energy probably existed for eternity.Yes, everything evolved and was created from energy. Does this mean energy is god? Why? Why call an apple an orange? Energy is energy. Why worship energy? What purpose would this serve? No you would not have to believe in an established religion if you believe god is energy. You would simply have to invent your own religion. In fact I am sure this is how the idea of god and religion was invented to start with in ancient times.Maybe you could call it Scientology or energology. You could probably make a lot of money,power and even control the masses, if you play your cards right. Fifth,is success still rewarding without god? Why not? Success usually brings money or other satisfying rewards of fulfillment.If you still feel 'empty' even with success then maybe what you succeeded in was not what is really important. True friendship,good family bonds,charitable giving,and pursuing ones passions are usually very fulfilling. You must search this as an individual. I find that being a good person by my standards brings inner peace and fulfillment also. Study some philosophy for some good ideas here. Lastly, I'm sad to see Bill Maher not embrace Atheism firmly but his specialty is politics not science or philosophy. Even though, scientists are not absolutists so without absolute evidence a negative such as god is unprovable either way. Therefore the scientific politicly correct answer is agnosticism. Agnosticism is the 'we can't know' answer to god.Bill Maher is politicly correct in this instance. If you need further answers please ask here and I will try to help. fullofdoubt, I would like to address your concerns point by point.
Yes we should learn the lessons of Hitler. I thought this had already been done but evidently not. Understanding evolution in some depth, one should realize humans are all related and very equal as a species.
One lesson Ben left out of the Hitler story was that The Nazi’s were Christian Catholics. They felt Jews were unbelievers of Jesus therefore soul-less and therefore subhuman. Atheists don’t believe in this ‘soul’, so therefore this idealism is less likely to evolve.
Second,no evolutionists don’t know for sure where life first started but there are some good hypothosis’s out there. To give the credit to God is only playing the ‘god of the gaps’ card.God theory has no mechanism for creating life either. So why even think that? Probably because that book where all that war you spoke of made this incredible claim.The bible.
Third, yes it would have been nice to have better eyes and some wings but evolution only gives for what is needed too survive. We obviously survived. Our large brains and use of language gave us the tools needed to overcome lack of other strengths. This is exactly how evolution works. If god created us, then whats his excuse for not giving us better bodies? If he is perfect and we are supposed to be created in his image, then why are we not a perfect bodied being?
Fourth, Energy does change into matter. Energy probably existed for eternity.Yes, everything evolved and was created from energy. Does this mean energy is god? Why? Why call an apple an orange? Energy is energy. Why worship energy? What purpose would this serve? No you would not have to believe in an established religion if you believe god is energy. You would simply have to invent your own religion. In fact I am sure this is how the idea of god and religion was invented to start with in ancient times.Maybe you could call it Scientology or energology. You could probably make a lot of money,power and even control the masses, if you play your cards right.
Fifth,is success still rewarding without god? Why not? Success usually brings money or other satisfying rewards of fulfillment.If you still feel ‘empty’ even with success then maybe what you succeeded in was not what is really important. True friendship,good family bonds,charitable giving,and pursuing ones passions are usually very fulfilling. You must search this as an individual. I find that being a good person by my standards brings inner peace and fulfillment also. Study some philosophy for some good ideas here.
Lastly, I’m sad to see Bill Maher not embrace Atheism firmly but his specialty is politics not science or philosophy. Even though, scientists are not absolutists so without absolute evidence a negative such as god is unprovable either way. Therefore the scientific politicly correct answer is agnosticism. Agnosticism is the ‘we can’t know’ answer to god.Bill Maher is politicly correct in this instance.
If you need further answers please ask here and I will try to help.

]]> By: Mike D. http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-1459 Mike D. Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:25:05 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-1459 Thank you for the research. I hope Ben and his followers read this although sadly they probably won't as the creationist only seem to read the bible or the sports page. Ben follows the same line propaganda theory as the Bush administration and Machiveili;It doesn't matter if you lie for the greater good as long as the lie is not revieled before the purposes are served. Knowing the creationist will never read Shermer ensures Ben's success. Somehow we evolutionists need to fight this tactic head on as the creationists are still very high in numbers in America. Thank you for the research. I hope Ben and his followers read this although sadly they probably won’t as the creationist only seem to read the bible or the sports page. Ben follows the same line propaganda theory as the Bush administration and Machiveili;It doesn’t matter if you lie for the greater good as long as the lie is not revieled before the purposes are served. Knowing the creationist will never read Shermer ensures Ben’s success. Somehow we evolutionists need to fight this tactic head on as the creationists are still very high in numbers in America.

]]> By: fullofdoubt http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-1400 fullofdoubt Sun, 14 Feb 2010 06:24:39 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-1400 What I mainly derived from Stein's documentary was more of a warning. Hitler's campaign was deeply rooted in the belief that Caucasions were more evolved, hence superior. Once one takes such a strongly held belief, aren't they obligated to act upon it? Isn't Stein merely warning about history repeating if we did not learn this part of the past? Isn't the holocaust partly to blame for most of society seeing atheists as immoral? The documentary did have me reevaluate my athesistic views. It was mainly the fact that nobody really knows how life started on this planet. I enjoyed watching Julia Sweeny's documentary "Letting Go Of God." Her path to atheism was pretty close to mine, that is, I started to actually read the bible. What a horror story! But, now I'm starting to think I've been a bit unfair to God. Not the incest approving, kill-your-child-for-me, woman-hating, asshole of the old and new testament. But, what if there is a supreme being that helped guide our evolution? Couldn't humans have evolved better? I mean, the squid has a better eye than humans. Feathers would have given warmth in most of the climates we reside. And wings for flight would have definately given us the advantage to not only evade predators, but to hunt. What would God be? Maybe energy? Does energy evolve? Isn't what really drives us actually energy? What happens to that 21grams when we pass? Why would I have to accept any established religion if I believe in a God? I don't want to believe "just in case." I am begining to feel that some of those religious people who say that all the success in the world is empty without God, are on to something. For now, I'm sticking with Bill Mayer's theology of staying in the "I don't know" realm. What I mainly derived from Stein’s documentary was more of a warning. Hitler’s campaign was deeply rooted in the belief that Caucasions were more evolved, hence superior.
Once one takes such a strongly held belief, aren’t they obligated to act upon it? Isn’t Stein merely warning about history repeating if we did not learn this part of the past?
Isn’t the holocaust partly to blame for most of society seeing atheists as immoral?
The documentary did have me reevaluate my athesistic views. It was mainly the fact that nobody really knows how life started on this planet. I enjoyed watching Julia Sweeny’s documentary “Letting Go Of God.” Her path to atheism was pretty close to mine, that is, I started to actually read the bible. What a horror story!
But, now I’m starting to think I’ve been a bit unfair to God. Not the incest approving, kill-your-child-for-me, woman-hating, asshole of the old and new testament.
But, what if there is a supreme being that helped guide our evolution? Couldn’t humans have evolved better? I mean, the squid has a better eye than humans. Feathers would have given warmth in most of the climates we reside. And wings for flight would have definately given us the advantage to not only evade predators, but to hunt.
What would God be? Maybe energy? Does energy evolve? Isn’t what really drives us actually energy? What happens to that 21grams when we pass? Why would I have to accept any established religion if I believe in a God?
I don’t want to believe “just in case.” I am begining to feel that some of those religious people who say that all the success in the world is empty without God, are on to something.
For now, I’m sticking with Bill Mayer’s theology of staying in the “I don’t know” realm.

]]> By: Samantha Hightower http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-621 Samantha Hightower Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:57:27 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-621 Some more tips would be great as medical advice does change often. Plus more experiences are appreciated. samantha Some more tips would be great as medical advice does change often. Plus more experiences are appreciated.

samantha

]]> By: Rick Hester http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-277 Rick Hester Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:58:09 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-277 Glad to see someone put Stine in his place. Having received my degree in History, it is so easy to shoot holes in Stine's arguments. Piety the man cannot see the forest for the trees. But as my former business partner's father told her when she left for college, "Now don't come back an educated dumb ass.." Glad to see someone put Stine in his place. Having received my degree in History, it is so easy to shoot holes in Stine’s arguments.
Piety the man cannot see the forest for the trees.
But as my former business partner’s father told her when she left for college, “Now don’t come back an educated dumb ass..”

]]> By: Jerry Gunn http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-04-17/#comment-144 Jerry Gunn Tue, 09 Jun 2009 04:44:18 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=194#comment-144 Thank you for the article The Richard Sternberg Affair. Very much appreciated. Thank you for the article The Richard Sternberg Affair. Very much appreciated.

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