Comments on: 08-06-18 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-06-18/ Promoting Science and Critical Thinking Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:04:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Julio Siqueira http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-06-18/#comment-384 Julio Siqueira Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:56:46 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=172#comment-384 Mark Crislip's article is informative and seems to be trustable. I would like to highlight two crucial passages: 1- “in cardiac arrest the EEG usually becomes flat in most cases within about 10 seconds from onset of syncope,” this is not supported by the literature they reference. 2- “We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest.” Of course not, since the study could not have any reliable data as to causation of NDE’s. I must say that, anyway, I would like to have seen a deeper analysis (more detailed) of what the authors said, especially in regards to number 2 above (that is, van Lommel et al detailed why they say “We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest,” and Crislip's critique seemed to me to bypass it somewhat). Crislip may not be aware of it, but van Lommel et al also miscited Sabom (citation number 22 - from van Lommel et al, Lancet 2001) and Ring & Cooper (citation number 31). Mark Crislip’s article is informative and seems to be trustable.

I would like to highlight two crucial passages:

1- “in cardiac arrest the EEG usually becomes flat in most cases within about 10 seconds from onset of syncope,” this is not supported by the literature they reference.

2- “We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest.” Of course not, since the study could not have any reliable data as to causation of NDE’s.

I must say that, anyway, I would like to have seen a deeper analysis (more detailed) of what the authors said, especially in regards to number 2 above (that is, van Lommel et al detailed why they say “We did not show that psychological, neurophysiological, or physiological factors caused these experiences after cardiac arrest,” and Crislip’s critique seemed to me to bypass it somewhat).

Crislip may not be aware of it, but van Lommel et al also miscited Sabom (citation number 22 – from van Lommel et al, Lancet 2001) and Ring & Cooper (citation number 31).

]]> By: telson http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/08-06-18/#comment-294 telson Thu, 09 Jul 2009 07:42:33 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eSkeptic/?p=172#comment-294 Most people are probably curious about what lies ahead after death, beyond the border of death. This may be a reason why they seek knowledge from spiritism sessions or books that discuss this issue. Many have also had personal close-to-death experiences – i.e., experiences when their heart has stopped in the hospital or in connection with an accident and when they may have seen themselves as if from the outside; they may have seen the operations done to them or the entire operating room. Some may have also seen in connection with their experiences a being of light that seems to be full of ‘love and compassion’. The major topic as comes to this conversation is indeed generally connected with the question of whether all near death experiences are positive and will everybody end up fine beyond the border in spite of the way they have lived on the Earth. Many researchers want to believe this but is it true? http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Border_of_death_experiences Most people are probably curious about what lies ahead after death, beyond the border of death. This may be a reason why they seek knowledge from spiritism sessions or books that discuss this issue. Many have also had personal close-to-death experiences – i.e., experiences when their heart has stopped in the hospital or in connection with an accident and when they may have seen themselves as if from the outside; they may have seen the operations done to them or the entire operating room. Some may have also seen in connection with their experiences a being of light that seems to be full of ‘love and compassion’.

The major topic as comes to this conversation is indeed generally connected with the question of whether all near death experiences are positive and will everybody end up fine beyond the border in spite of the way they have lived on the Earth. Many researchers want to believe this but is it true?

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/Border_of_death_experiences

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