Comments on: 09-05-20 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/ Promoting Science and Critical Thinking Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:04:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Aj http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-4671 Aj Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:53:45 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-4671 You are assuming in your point that touching and caring are equivalent to sugar pill and that they would count as placebo, but they are not, there is copious evidence tht touch itself has beneficial health effects. Which brings up a more serious ethical problem with placebos. If the care is really the reason for a benefit from placebos, doctors are hurting patients by keeping them in a medical setting when so many patients would do better spending that time and resources with loved ones. You are assuming in your point that touching and caring are equivalent to sugar pill and that they would count as placebo, but they are not, there is copious evidence tht touch itself has beneficial health effects. Which brings up a more serious ethical problem with placebos. If the care is really the reason for a benefit from placebos, doctors are hurting patients by keeping them in a medical setting when so many patients would do better spending that time and resources with loved ones.

]]> By: Aj http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-4670 Aj Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:46:49 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-4670 When parents point to a tight correlation between a child's autism and a vaccination, doctors are quick to say that they only seem related but that there us another explanation - that satistical studies show they are not related. (The studies I've seen more specifically ruled out mercury in vaccines.). But when a doctor sees a patient improve after taking a placebo, they can attribute it unquestioningly to belief in treatment, despite the knowledge that many things like regression to the mean or the natural course of the a disease, etc, could be the cause, and despite the statistical work demonstrating overwhelmingly that placebos don't work better than doing nothing at all. Some want to believe the placebo effect explanation so much , they have created a bizarre twist to explain that belief in treatment is the reason for observed improvements: saying that placebos "work" even when patients know they are getting a sham treatment. Ho boy. It appears the power of placebos is as much in the mind of medical practitioners as in the patients'. When parents point to a tight correlation between a child’s autism and a vaccination, doctors are quick to say that they only seem related but that there us another explanation – that satistical studies show they are not related. (The studies I’ve seen more specifically ruled out mercury in vaccines.). But when a doctor sees a patient improve after taking a placebo, they can attribute it unquestioningly to belief in treatment, despite the knowledge that many things like regression to the mean or the natural course of the a disease, etc, could be the cause, and despite the statistical work demonstrating overwhelmingly that placebos don’t work better than doing nothing at all. Some want to believe the placebo effect explanation so much , they have created a bizarre twist to explain that belief in treatment is the reason for observed improvements: saying that placebos “work” even when patients know they are getting a sham treatment. Ho boy. It appears the power of placebos is as much in the mind of medical practitioners as in the patients’.

]]> By: Marie http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-1939 Marie Fri, 18 Jun 2010 02:35:08 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-1939 While I agree with the article, I have to wonder about the one lady with the migraines. She received pain relief from the saline solution. I assume this was an IV. I get migraines when I dehydrate, and my doctor has many times given me a saline IV and a pain killer. While the pain killer may (or may not) have given me a little immediate relief, I believe the hydration may actually have helped more. Or maybe it was totally the placebo effect with me. Who knows! While I agree with the article, I have to wonder about the one lady with the migraines. She received pain relief from the saline solution. I assume this was an IV. I get migraines when I dehydrate, and my doctor has many times given me a saline IV and a pain killer. While the pain killer may (or may not) have given me a little immediate relief, I believe the hydration may actually have helped more.

Or maybe it was totally the placebo effect with me. Who knows!

]]> By: Deepak http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-957 Deepak Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:06:05 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-957 Hi Kennwrite, If this was the case that sugar and salt had some unobserved medical benefits, then probably people would not need to visit a doctor for the prescription, would they? I am assuming that most people take salt and sugar in their diet everyday. Hi Kennwrite, If this was the case that sugar and salt had some unobserved medical benefits, then probably people would not need to visit a doctor for the prescription, would they? I am assuming that most people take salt and sugar in their diet everyday.

]]> By: jenny haskins http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-739 jenny haskins Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:05:32 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-739 "All along it has been faith that does the healing, not the medicine. It is the presence of God’s love that heals each and all of us, whether or not we know or acknowledge that divine Mind is the healer." Of course, religion of the biggest placebo of them all!!! All that's needed is "faith"! “All along it has been faith that does the healing, not the medicine. It is the presence of God’s love that heals each and all of us, whether or not we know or acknowledge that divine Mind is the healer.”

Of course, religion of the biggest placebo of them all!!!

All that’s needed is “faith”!

]]> By: kapil http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-706 kapil Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:11:46 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-706 yes,kennwrite you are very much right and i altogether agree with you yes,kennwrite you are very much right and i altogether agree with you

]]> By: jrm2532 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-668 jrm2532 Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:00:22 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-668 THE PLACEBO EFFECT Friends, The simple answer to this placebo effect has been with us since 1875. It is this textbook on spiritual healing, entitled,"Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures". The Holy Bible, interpreted by our Pastor Emeritus, Mary Baker Eddy, in "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures", explains “the way” Christ Jesus taught some humble fishermen, how to spiritually heal those who came to them with faith, that their ills and torments can be healed by Christ power, and how these ex-fishermen then taught this mental Christ sent method of healing to the world. Now, all can be taught divine healing. All along it has been faith that does the healing, not the medicine. It is the presence of God's love that heals each and all of us, whether or not we know or acknowledge that divine Mind is the healer. Most commercials have the statement in small print, "results may vary". Doesn't this tell you immediately that faith in the drug or the doctor did the healing. This is truly a beginning of great significance. But now one need not EVEN take the pill at all, and learn to heal mentally, because it was our Father all along that did the healing. This comforting book can be found in Christian Science Reading Rooms throughout the world, in numerous languages. I am 86 years young and have never tasted a drop of medicine or been in a hospital bed. Join me in a happy way of living. Jay THE PLACEBO EFFECT
Friends,
The simple answer to this placebo effect has been with us since 1875. It is this textbook on spiritual healing, entitled,”Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures”.

The Holy Bible, interpreted by our Pastor Emeritus, Mary Baker Eddy, in “Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures”, explains “the way” Christ Jesus taught some humble fishermen, how to spiritually heal those who came to them with faith, that their ills and torments can be healed by Christ power, and how these ex-fishermen then taught this mental Christ sent method of healing to the world. Now, all can be taught divine healing.

All along it has been faith that does the healing, not the medicine. It is the presence of God’s love that heals each and all of us, whether or not we know or acknowledge that divine Mind is the healer.

Most commercials have the statement in small print, “results may vary”. Doesn’t this tell you immediately that faith in the drug or the doctor did the healing. This is truly a beginning of great significance. But now one need not EVEN take the pill at all, and learn to heal mentally, because it was our Father all along that did the healing.

This comforting book can be found in Christian Science Reading Rooms throughout the world, in numerous languages. I am 86 years young and have never tasted a drop of medicine or been in a hospital bed. Join me in a happy way of living.
Jay

]]> By: I SAY http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-601 I SAY Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:45:22 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-601 Article mentions about Placebos not effective when used during sleep or coma so it's about hope and reassurance. Article mentions about Placebos not effective when used during sleep or coma so it’s about hope and reassurance.

]]> By: I canshakeit http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-588 I canshakeit Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:52:48 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-588 Way to be very blunt at the end of your comment. It's like 'thud'. I like it. :D Way to be very blunt at the end of your comment.
It’s like ‘thud’. I like it. :D

]]> By: Susie Hartsog http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-586 Susie Hartsog Tue, 08 Sep 2009 01:48:58 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-586 Our state of mind sometimes draws us to believe that we actually need to take medication to become "sane" once more. It is entirely wrong to take such actions of course, as it will lead to serious side affects. Insomnia, health problems, addiction, lack of emotion, and feeling completly useless. Taking drugs without the consent of a doctor or psychiatrist is very dangerous, and you could be found in the next body bag. Our state of mind sometimes draws us to believe that we actually need to take medication to become “sane” once more. It is entirely wrong to take such actions of course, as it will lead to serious side affects. Insomnia, health problems, addiction, lack of emotion, and feeling completly useless. Taking drugs without the consent of a doctor or psychiatrist is very dangerous, and you could be found in the next body bag.

]]> By: anand jha hatni http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-583 anand jha hatni Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:01:50 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-583 To certain extent various problems don't require medication at all,it's the psychologocal perception that makes the persion feels that he/she requires some treatment,though scientifically one may not require so. Under that condition the onus goes on the experienced doctor who dare practice placebo effect to determine the exclusive cases whether one requires such or not. so under this circumstance doctor needs not to reveal the same as that may mar the very purpose of this psychological treatment. To certain extent various problems don’t require medication at all,it’s the psychologocal perception that makes the persion feels that he/she requires some treatment,though scientifically one may not require so. Under that condition the onus goes on the experienced doctor who dare practice placebo effect to determine the exclusive cases whether one requires such or not. so under this circumstance doctor needs not to reveal the same as that may mar the very purpose of this psychological treatment.

]]> By: Yo http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-528 Yo Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:26:00 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-528 Your detailed comment very nicely explains how our mental and emotional states directly affect our bodies. In general, we are naturally inclined to healing. I really like how Dr. Hall makes the connection between the placebo effect and conventional medicine. I also agree that what we need to do is minimize cost and deception both in conventional medicine and the alternative/wholistic healing field. Your detailed comment very nicely explains how our mental and emotional states directly affect our bodies. In general, we are naturally inclined to healing. I really like how Dr. Hall makes the connection between the placebo effect and conventional medicine. I also agree that what we need to do is minimize cost and deception both in conventional medicine and the alternative/wholistic healing field.

]]> By: marianasoffer http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-261 marianasoffer Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:28:01 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-261 Some doctors belive that the placebo effect is mainly or purely physical and due to physical changes that promote healing or feeling better. So, what is the explanatory mechanism for the placebo effect? Some think it is the process of administering it. It is thought that the touching, the caring, the attention, and other interpersonal communication that is part of the controlled study process (or the therapeutic setting), along with the hopefulness and encouragement provided by the experimenter/healer, affect the mood, expectations, and beliefs of the subject, which in turn triggers physical changes such as release of endorphins, catecholamines, cortisol, or adrenaline. The process reduces stress by providing hope or reducing uncertainty about what treatment to take or what the outcome will be. The reduction in stress prevents or slows down further harmful physical changes from occurring. The healing situation provokes a conditioned response. http://singyourownlullaby.blogspot.com/2009/06/placebo-effect.html Some doctors belive that the placebo effect is mainly or purely physical and due to physical changes that promote healing or feeling better. So, what is the explanatory mechanism for the placebo effect? Some think it is the process of administering it. It is thought that the touching, the caring, the attention, and other interpersonal communication that is part of the controlled study process (or the therapeutic setting), along with the hopefulness and encouragement provided by the experimenter/healer, affect the mood, expectations, and beliefs of the subject, which in turn triggers physical changes such as release of endorphins, catecholamines, cortisol, or adrenaline. The process reduces stress by providing hope or reducing uncertainty about what treatment to take or what the outcome will be. The reduction in stress prevents or slows down further harmful physical changes from occurring. The healing situation provokes a conditioned response.
http://singyourownlullaby.blogspot.com/2009/06/placebo-effect.html

]]> By: Rune I. http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-257 Rune I. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:59:15 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-257 Yes, infection with Helicobacter pylori is associated with stomach ulcers, but cimetidine which Ben Goldacre is writing about is not an antibiotic and does not kill the bacterium; it lowers acid secretion in the stomach. So antibiotic resistance cannot explain this. Yes, infection with Helicobacter pylori is associated with stomach ulcers, but cimetidine which Ben Goldacre is writing about is not an antibiotic and does not kill the bacterium; it lowers acid secretion in the stomach. So antibiotic resistance cannot explain this.

]]> By: mobiaxis http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-256 mobiaxis Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:31:57 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-256 If I could only get my wife's doctor to advise her that her NSAIDs have the side effect of extreme sexual desire... If I could only get my wife’s doctor to advise her that her NSAIDs have the side effect of extreme sexual desire…

]]> By: Melissa B. http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-255 Melissa B. Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:02:24 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-255 I think I've read that ulcers, or at least some of them, are caused by bacteria. So another explanation for your ulcer example is that the ulcer-causing bacteria developed resistance to the first drug. I have no idea if this is actually the case, but it could be an alternative, objective, explanation. I think I’ve read that ulcers, or at least some of them, are caused by bacteria. So another explanation for your ulcer example is that the ulcer-causing bacteria developed resistance to the first drug. I have no idea if this is actually the case, but it could be an alternative, objective, explanation.

]]> By: Fall Guy http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-254 Fall Guy Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:33:03 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-254 Lets talk about the theft of Billions of dollars the drug co. make and the dr's kickback on this sham, even if the "I love being sick crowd" and the deceived feel they benefit it is still a rip-off, a con, and no different than any other crime. Just one more reason why Health Care cost too much and the Dr., Drug Co., Hospital corp CEO's are laughing at us and the Law Makers who believe them. Lets talk about the theft of Billions of dollars the drug co. make and the dr’s kickback on this sham, even if the “I love being sick crowd” and the deceived feel they benefit it is still a rip-off, a con, and no different than any other crime. Just one more reason why Health Care cost too much and the Dr., Drug Co., Hospital corp CEO’s are laughing at us and the Law Makers who believe them.

]]> By: Jake http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-244 Jake Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:15:10 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-244 The fact that the psychiatrist told Jane she'd gotten a placebo smacks of major irresponsibility to me, stemming not so much from a desire to clarify the situation for her, as from the doc's idiotic mistrust of anything "non-scientific," even if it works. The fact that the psychiatrist told Jane she’d gotten a placebo smacks of major irresponsibility to me, stemming not so much from a desire to clarify the situation for her, as from the doc’s idiotic mistrust of anything “non-scientific,” even if it works.

]]> By: anomdebus http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-98 anomdebus Thu, 28 May 2009 13:20:58 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-98 I am reminded of an experiment conducted by the nutritionist Mehmet Oz. There are three groups: men drinking water, drinking sugar water and swishing sugar water in their mouths. The amount of work done by each group over the course of a day is compared. The results ended up that the sugar drinkers got an early lead, but were later over taken by the swishing sugar water workers. The hypothesis was that the body anticipated getting a boost of energy and released some of its own. Note: I do not necessarily endorse this study as valid, but find it interesting.. I am reminded of an experiment conducted by the nutritionist Mehmet Oz. There are three groups: men drinking water, drinking sugar water and swishing sugar water in their mouths. The amount of work done by each group over the course of a day is compared. The results ended up that the sugar drinkers got an early lead, but were later over taken by the swishing sugar water workers.

The hypothesis was that the body anticipated getting a boost of energy and released some of its own.

Note: I do not necessarily endorse this study as valid, but find it interesting..

]]> By: Slida http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/#comment-71 Slida Sun, 24 May 2009 15:56:04 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/?p=723#comment-71 Causing someone's emotional response to something to change is an effect, isn't it? Causing someone’s emotional response to something to change is an effect, isn’t it?

]]>