Comments on: 09-09-23 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/ Promoting Science and Critical Thinking Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:04:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Craven http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-879 Craven Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:27:57 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-879 H1N1 BULLETIN! Mother said “Wash your hands!” And wash them continuously! Can’t do this? Well. Read on: And warn EVERYONE! Our small company is now developing a convenient portable pouch for Canadians and Americans, that will fit in the front of the trousers (or skirt) and will allow folks to keep their hands in there, instead of in their dirty germ-infested pockets, or worse, caressing some filthy germ-infested doorknob! Much like a Scot’s Sporrin. Our water-tight polycarbonate/polyethylene “sporrin” will be filled with a strong anti-bacterial detergent solution. Attached to it will be a small disposable roll of towels, as well as an optional hi-intensity ultraviolet light, which will be attached to the belt-buckle. Rechargeable batteries will fit in the user’s pocket or purse. The dream of continuous handwashing has been finally realized! NO MORE GERMS! We hope to bundle a copy of Shakespeare’s Macbeth with the first 1000 orders. Dealer inquiries are welcome! Please write to me! Patent-pending. IPO to be issued next month. H1N1 BULLETIN!

Mother said “Wash your hands!”
And wash them continuously! Can’t do this?
Well. Read on:
And warn EVERYONE!

Our small company is now developing a convenient portable pouch for Canadians and Americans, that will fit in the front of the trousers (or skirt) and will allow folks to keep their hands in there, instead of in their dirty germ-infested pockets, or worse, caressing some filthy germ-infested doorknob!
Much like a Scot’s Sporrin.

Our water-tight polycarbonate/polyethylene “sporrin” will be filled with a strong anti-bacterial detergent solution.
Attached to it will be a small disposable roll of towels, as well as an optional hi-intensity ultraviolet light, which will be attached to the belt-buckle.
Rechargeable batteries will fit in the user’s pocket or purse.

The dream of continuous handwashing has been finally realized!
NO MORE GERMS!

We hope to bundle a copy of Shakespeare’s Macbeth with the first 1000 orders.

Dealer inquiries are welcome!
Please write to me!

Patent-pending.
IPO to be issued next month.

]]> By: Shoethrower http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-872 Shoethrower Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:33:44 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-872 re: "...Claim: 'The potential for a weaponized vaccine to be the vector for a weaponized flu cannot be discounted.' Fact: Most far-fetched conspiracy theories are wrong. I have no trouble discounting this one. The potential may be there, but the likelihood is homeopathic." I love that weasel word "most". The fact is, from what I've read on this site and from other so-called skeptics, you are emotionally disposed to discount ANY conspiracy theory WHATSOEVER, regardless of ANY evidence, pro or con. Here's a newsflash: Being agressively uninformed is not "scientific". It's pathetic, and surprisingly and sadly common in the skeptic community. Man, I wish our intelligencia were smarter. re: “…Claim: ‘The potential for a weaponized vaccine to be the vector for a weaponized flu cannot be discounted.’

Fact: Most far-fetched conspiracy theories are wrong. I have no trouble discounting this one. The potential may be there, but the likelihood is homeopathic.”

I love that weasel word “most”. The fact is, from what I’ve read on this site and from other so-called skeptics, you are emotionally disposed to discount ANY conspiracy theory WHATSOEVER, regardless of ANY evidence, pro or con.

Here’s a newsflash: Being agressively uninformed is not “scientific”. It’s pathetic, and surprisingly and sadly common in the skeptic community. Man, I wish our intelligencia were smarter.

]]> By: OneSmallWord http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-793 OneSmallWord Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:37:09 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-793 In Zemel's list of beliefs embraced by the Age of Aquarius, he includes "Eastern religions." Is this implying that non-Western religions are suspect but Western religions are not. Why not simplify it to dismiss all religions? (And just to cut off a rejoinder at the pass, historically, it is not accurate to counter that he means that only in the 1960s did these so-called Eastern religions emerge.) In Zemel’s list of beliefs embraced by the Age of Aquarius, he includes “Eastern religions.” Is this implying that non-Western religions are suspect but Western religions are not. Why not simplify it to dismiss all religions?

(And just to cut off a rejoinder at the pass, historically, it is not accurate to counter that he means that only in the 1960s did these so-called Eastern religions emerge.)

]]> By: Arthur Naiman http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-723 Arthur Naiman Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:51:43 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-723 "Zillion" is not a number! Really? I didn't know that. Given the dazzling depth and insight of Lyle's critique, I guess I need to make things painfully clear. The point is that there's MUCH MORE evidence for the role of vitamin D in preventing flu than there is for vaccination. There's just less money to be made on it. “Zillion” is not a number! Really? I didn’t know that.

Given the dazzling depth and insight of Lyle’s critique, I guess I need to make things painfully clear. The point is that there’s MUCH MORE evidence for the role of vitamin D in preventing flu than there is for vaccination. There’s just less money to be made on it.

]]> By: Zemel http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-702 Zemel Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:46:32 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-702 It's pretty evident to me where most of this anti-vaccination fear comes from. The '60's were a great time in history that I can still wax pretty nostalgic over--the music, the expressions of solidarity, the palpable feeling of "change" in the air--all that groovy stuff. But one of the problems with the '60's, which I recognized even when I was partying during that time like most other college students of the era, was its anti-intellectualism, anti-Enlightenmentism (even though much of what inspired that period sprang from the Enlghtenment) and anti-science. Instead, astrology, Eastern religion, and other so-called "spiritual" beliefs were embraced in the Age of Aquarius. Somehow in the minds of much of the counterculture, rationality got mixed up with "the ruling paradigm" and became suspect, as a tool of repression, which was a pretty dopey (no pun intended) thing to beleive; plenty of fascist regimes have been anti-intellectual as well. So in addition to a lot of positive social progress that the '60's brought about, it also resulted in much of the New Age drivel we're now exposed to every day--suspicion of something being "against nature", belief in homeopathy (despite the fact that there's no valid studies corroborating hoeopathy), Wikkens--all that flapdoodle. Not that there isn't precedent for this type of belief structure on the Right---some of the people involved in the Waldorff schools were Nazi sympathizers--actually, a lot of the Nazis themselves were "green," but that does NOT make being ecology minded a bad thing. It's just that the Nazis were intoxicated with blood and soil. Those who are on a "spiritual quest" often speak reverently about mysticism, but there was a big mystical strain running through National Socialism. I believe a lot of this anti-vaccine hysteria comes from a distrust of science that still prevails---even respected periodicals have an astrology page. While the Far Right currently pushes Creationism because they see it as Biblical Truth, a lot of so-called progressives push this "organic" agenda. Somehow it's become mainsteam, as we Boomers approach decreptitude, to mistrust "Western medicine" as a tool of Big Pharm, in favor of herbs, etc. Also, our old time healthy mistrust of government has now engendered much of these conspiracy theories, which is nothing but junk politics. It's "feel good" belief--it actually makes you feel good to believe you're one of the good guys who knows that a cabal of bad guys out there are running some shadow government behind everyone's back--you're fighting the good fight. But, if you tell soemone who believes in conspiracy theories and who happens to be on the Left that you don't buy them, they often ask you when you stopped being a progressive. They forget that there have always been plenty of wacky conspiracy theories on the Right. Remember flouridation being a Communist plot? So let's all try to exercise a little critical thinking, regardless where we fall on the political spectrum. It’s pretty evident to me where most of this anti-vaccination fear comes from. The ’60′s were a great time in history that I can still wax pretty nostalgic over–the music, the expressions of solidarity, the palpable feeling of “change” in the air–all that groovy stuff. But one of the problems with the ’60′s, which I recognized even when I was partying during that time like most other college students of the era, was its anti-intellectualism, anti-Enlightenmentism (even though much of what inspired that period sprang from the Enlghtenment) and anti-science. Instead, astrology, Eastern religion, and other so-called “spiritual” beliefs were embraced in the Age of Aquarius. Somehow in the minds of much of the counterculture, rationality got mixed up with “the ruling paradigm” and became suspect, as a tool of repression, which was a pretty dopey (no pun intended) thing to beleive; plenty of fascist regimes have been anti-intellectual as well. So in addition to a lot of positive social progress that the ’60′s brought about, it also resulted in much of the New Age drivel we’re now exposed to every day–suspicion of something being “against nature”, belief in homeopathy (despite the fact that there’s no valid studies corroborating hoeopathy), Wikkens–all that flapdoodle. Not that there isn’t precedent for this type of belief structure on the Right—some of the people involved in the Waldorff schools were Nazi sympathizers–actually, a lot of the Nazis themselves were “green,” but that does NOT make being ecology minded a bad thing. It’s just that the Nazis were intoxicated with blood and soil. Those who are on a “spiritual quest” often speak reverently about mysticism, but there was a big mystical strain running through National Socialism. I believe a lot of this anti-vaccine hysteria comes from a distrust of science that still prevails—even respected periodicals have an astrology page. While the Far Right currently pushes Creationism because they see it as Biblical Truth, a lot of so-called progressives push this “organic” agenda. Somehow it’s become mainsteam, as we Boomers approach decreptitude, to mistrust “Western medicine” as a tool of Big Pharm, in favor of herbs, etc. Also, our old time healthy mistrust of government has now engendered much of these conspiracy theories, which is nothing but junk politics. It’s “feel good” belief–it actually makes you feel good to believe you’re one of the good guys who knows that a cabal of bad guys out there are running some shadow government behind everyone’s back–you’re fighting the good fight. But, if you tell soemone who believes in conspiracy theories and who happens to be on the Left that you don’t buy them, they often ask you when you stopped being a progressive. They forget that there have always been plenty of wacky conspiracy theories on the Right. Remember flouridation being a Communist plot? So let’s all try to exercise a little critical thinking, regardless where we fall on the political spectrum.

]]> By: Harriet Hall http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-701 Harriet Hall Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:03:01 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-701 Your health is not a reason to decline the vaccine: the swine flu attacks healthy young adults. Most pregnant women who have died of swine flu were in good health. Pregnant women are at higher risk and will be given high priority for the limited supplies of vaccines. We have decades of experience with flu vaccines, and there is no evidence that they cause any side effects for unborn children. There is, however, good evidence that catching the flu can cause serious illness and death. There's also a risk to the fetus. "In past pandemics, there were high rates of stillbirth, spontaneous abortion, and premature delivery among pregnant women who had the flu. Flu comes with fever, which can result in brain damage to the fetus." See http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20090729/pregnancy-ups-swine-flu-death-risk If I were pregnant, I would run, not walk, to get the vaccine as soon as it was available. Flu is a known risk; it doesn't make sense to expose yourself to a known risk because of nervousness about possible hypothetical side effects that most experts agree are highly unlikely. Your health is not a reason to decline the vaccine: the swine flu attacks healthy young adults. Most pregnant women who have died of swine flu were in good health. Pregnant women are at higher risk and will be given high priority for the limited supplies of vaccines. We have decades of experience with flu vaccines, and there is no evidence that they cause any side effects for unborn children. There is, however, good evidence that catching the flu can cause serious illness and death. There’s also a risk to the fetus. “In past pandemics, there were high rates of stillbirth, spontaneous abortion, and premature delivery among pregnant women who had the flu. Flu comes with fever, which can result in brain damage to the fetus.” See http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20090729/pregnancy-ups-swine-flu-death-risk If I were pregnant, I would run, not walk, to get the vaccine as soon as it was available. Flu is a known risk; it doesn’t make sense to expose yourself to a known risk because of nervousness about possible hypothetical side effects that most experts agree are highly unlikely.

]]> By: Texan Mama http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-700 Texan Mama Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:25:54 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-700 Hi! I'm a pregnant woman (33 weeks) and very skeptical about getting the vaccine. By the time the injection vaccine is available, I might be close to delivery anyway. But I just am too nervous about the possible side effects on my unborn child. Have there been any studies on this? Also, I am typically an EXTREMELY healthy person. I have never contracted mono, bronchitis, strep throat, or pneumonia. I've never been hospitalized (except for previous labor/delivery). Heck, I don't even have a single allergy! Isn't a person's natural health status more important to factor in, when considering whether or not to get the swine flu vaccine? I never get a seasonal flu shot either and I've only gotten the flu once in the past 10 years. Hi! I’m a pregnant woman (33 weeks) and very skeptical about getting the vaccine. By the time the injection vaccine is available, I might be close to delivery anyway. But I just am too nervous about the possible side effects on my unborn child. Have there been any studies on this?

Also, I am typically an EXTREMELY healthy person. I have never contracted mono, bronchitis, strep throat, or pneumonia. I’ve never been hospitalized (except for previous labor/delivery). Heck, I don’t even have a single allergy! Isn’t a person’s natural health status more important to factor in, when considering whether or not to get the swine flu vaccine? I never get a seasonal flu shot either and I’ve only gotten the flu once in the past 10 years.

]]> By: Linda http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-697 Linda Fri, 02 Oct 2009 04:33:37 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-697 Pseudoskepticism reigns supreme!! As long as somebody puts whatever they say after the word 'Fact' then we should believe it. Everybody get in line for your shots. Trust Merck. Trust Baxter. Trust what Ms. Skeptic says. Nevermind that vaccines issued for the 1976 swine flu killed more people than the actual virus. Let's not talk about that. Let Skeptic do all your thinking for you. Be skeptical: believe! Pseudoskepticism reigns supreme!!

As long as somebody puts whatever they say after the word ‘Fact’ then we should believe it. Everybody get in line for your shots. Trust Merck. Trust Baxter. Trust what Ms. Skeptic says. Nevermind that vaccines issued for the 1976 swine flu killed more people than the actual virus. Let’s not talk about that. Let Skeptic do all your thinking for you. Be skeptical: believe!

]]> By: Gan Drak http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-688 Gan Drak Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:50:28 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-688 Meticulous debunking of rampant myths. Kudos! Meticulous debunking of rampant myths.
Kudos!

]]> By: paul http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-685 paul Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:30:22 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-685 Do we need a population cul....without a doubt.look at the M25 at 6.30 am Do i want to be part of it? not really; Do we need a population cul….without a doubt.look at the M25 at 6.30 am
Do i want to be part of it? not really;

]]> By: Lyle http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-683 Lyle Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:52:31 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-683 If the swine flu is a government plan to depopulate, the bast way for them to go about it would be to keep people from getting the vaccine. So if there is a government plan to use swine flu to depopulate, perhaps INFOWARSdotCOM is part of it! The swine flu is much more likely to kill than is the vaccine against swine flu. If the vaccine increases a person's chances of getting GBS by 1 in 1,000,000, and the GBS rate without the swine flu vaccine is 1-4 in 100,000, then the total risk for someone getting the swine flu vaccine becomes 1.1-4.1 per 100,000 people. If the swine flu is a government plan to depopulate, the bast way for them to go about it would be to keep people from getting the vaccine. So if there is a government plan to use swine flu to depopulate, perhaps INFOWARSdotCOM is part of it! The swine flu is much more likely to kill than is the vaccine against swine flu. If the vaccine increases a person’s chances of getting GBS by 1 in 1,000,000, and the GBS rate without the swine flu vaccine is 1-4 in 100,000, then the total risk for someone getting the swine flu vaccine becomes 1.1-4.1 per 100,000 people.

]]> By: Lyle http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-682 Lyle Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:29:17 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-682 "These are just two examples among zillions." "Zillion" is not a number. I know that may seem like a petty complaint, but no more petty that your complaint that Dr. Hall said washing your hands is a good idea, and called it a fact. Maybe she should have said that hand washing has been shown to reduce the spread of pathogens. I think her point was that his advice, while fine for general health, is not nearly as effective against influenza as vaccination. But you anti-vaccine people will find anything to catch someone on, even if it is pointless. That and your conspiracy theories and a pact of shared lies is all you have. “These are just two examples among zillions.”

“Zillion” is not a number. I know that may seem like a petty complaint, but no more petty that your complaint that Dr. Hall said washing your hands is a good idea, and called it a fact. Maybe she should have said that hand washing has been shown to reduce the spread of pathogens. I think her point was that his advice, while fine for general health, is not nearly as effective against influenza as vaccination.

But you anti-vaccine people will find anything to catch someone on, even if it is pointless. That and your conspiracy theories and a pact of shared lies is all you have.

]]> By: Lyle http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-681 Lyle Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:47:00 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-681 The problem is that the anti-vaccine crowd endangers others. As Dr. Hall stated, no vaccine is 100% effective. The benefit comes from reducing your chance of getting sick if exposed to the virus AND reducing your chance of being exposed to the virus. Also, some people can't get vaccinated because of some medical conditions. The problem is that the anti-vaccine crowd endangers others. As Dr. Hall stated, no vaccine is 100% effective. The benefit comes from reducing your chance of getting sick if exposed to the virus AND reducing your chance of being exposed to the virus. Also, some people can’t get vaccinated because of some medical conditions.

]]> By: Lyle http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-680 Lyle Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:42:02 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-680 Perhaps she never addressed your first concern because she realizes the difference between a vaccine and antibiotics. "Overuse" of vaccines will not cause mutations in the virus. Vaccines are not the same as antibiotics. A vaccine causes ones body to develop a reaction to the virus, so that when/if the actual virus gets in, one's body can more effectively fight the virus. Giving a vaccine after infection by the virus would be of no value. Antibiotics are used when one already has a bacterial infection and the antibiotic itself kills the bacteria. If the antibiotic is over prescribed or misused (e.g., not taking the full course of antibiotics) the bacteria which are not killed are the ones with the greatest resistance to the antibiotic, ones that might have been killed if the full course had been taken. Those bacteria go on to reproduce and make more antibiotic resistant bacteria. By misusing and over prescribing antibiotics, we are forcing the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria. Perhaps she never addressed your first concern because she realizes the difference between a vaccine and antibiotics.

“Overuse” of vaccines will not cause mutations in the virus. Vaccines are not the same as antibiotics. A vaccine causes ones body to develop a reaction to the virus, so that when/if the actual virus gets in, one’s body can more effectively fight the virus. Giving a vaccine after infection by the virus would be of no value. Antibiotics are used when one already has a bacterial infection and the antibiotic itself kills the bacteria. If the antibiotic is over prescribed or misused (e.g., not taking the full course of antibiotics) the bacteria which are not killed are the ones with the greatest resistance to the antibiotic, ones that might have been killed if the full course had been taken. Those bacteria go on to reproduce and make more antibiotic resistant bacteria. By misusing and over prescribing antibiotics, we are forcing the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria.

]]> By: Lyle http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-679 Lyle Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:04:17 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-679 The photo you linked to does not go with the quote. What was going on in the photo was the government trying to keep a tight control over society, not trying to protect the members of society. (What's the matter, couldn't you find a photo of Nazis doing something evil?) A better photo would have been one of Charles Manson behind bars. The photo you linked to does not go with the quote. What was going on in the photo was the government trying to keep a tight control over society, not trying to protect the members of society. (What’s the matter, couldn’t you find a photo of Nazis doing something evil?) A better photo would have been one of Charles Manson behind bars.

]]> By: Wayward son http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-678 Wayward son Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:05:49 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-678 "but I dont trust governments anymore and mainstreamedia corporations agendas and governments hired science advisors etc." Why would you when there are people like Alex Jones and David Icke to follow? "I see a possibility of a conspiracy and that this whole swineflu hyping can be a smart trick to introduce a NWO and a World Government so the bankers that run our earth can get more control over earth and the economy and its people as our elites have wished for." Good thing have figured it out. Now you can save the world be the hero. Sure the previous couple thousand claims Alex Jones has made have been complete nonsense, but that just means he is due to be right. "Its a smart conspiracy and I cannot prove it yet totally" Really? Damn. "but go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON." Thanks for the advice. I have a friend, who is a bit of nutcase, and each day sends me a bunch of crap from infowars and prisonplanet which I enjoy reading for a good laugh before bed. I can't prove that every single they say is baloney, but anything they have talked about in which I have any knowledge is beyond comical. [QUOTE]To see that this whole mass vaccination plan sounds more like a mass vaccination GENOCIDE.[/QUOTE] I agree. And every other end of world senario that has daily come out of Alex Jones' mouth has come true....no wait, they have all been 100% wrong. What is the difference between a Alex Jones and broken clock? At least a broken clock is right twice a day. What is the differnce between an Alex Jones follower and someone looking at a broken clock? The person looking at the broken clock will eventually realize that the clock is not accurate. "SO go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON" Yawn. We look forward to your next set of conspiracy theories when this one, like the previous ones, doesn't come true. "and if you laugh now let me wake you up" Thanks. OMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! IT'S THE END OF WORLD!!! "with a quote from our all beloved Albert Einsten: Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance. ‘Albert Einstein’" Nice quote. It, and variations of it, has been attributed to more famous people than you can shake a stick at. I have found no actual evidence that Einstein ever said it or any variation of it. Maybe you should have investigated. "SO DO NOT VIPE OUT THE SWINE FLU AS A POSSIBLE GENOCIDE DEPOPULATION PROGRAM CONSPIRACY AS A POSSIBILITY BEFORE. check out infowarsDOTcom for more information and weight your options to who you wanna believe…." So on the one hand I could follow the evidence and get the vaccination. On the other there is a chance in 10^100000000000000 that this is genecide program because some nuts who have a history of saying completely nutty things have made up a new fantasy. Better weigh my options. "honestly I dont believe skeptics nor infowars." Sure you don't believe inforwars. Go to infowars, go to infowars, go to infowars, go to infowars, go to infowars. How about this - go read Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" or Tavris's "Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me" or Sagan's "Demon Haunted World." You are in desperate need of a baloney detection kit. "I am open to see what will turn out of this swine flu propaganda mess, it can be GENOCIDE conspiracy, it can be just governments actually care for us and make vaccines to help us out? The truth will be figured out in time, THAT IS ALL I KNOW, even as a scientist." Here is what I suspect. When the completely fabricated, fantasy, delusional claims that you are promoting have been shown to be completely fabricated, fantasy, delusional claims (which is already obvious) you will be promoting the next Jones/Icke crackpot fantasy without acknowledging that this one was. See you then. “but I dont trust governments anymore and mainstreamedia corporations agendas and governments hired science advisors etc.”

Why would you when there are people like Alex Jones and David Icke to follow?

“I see a possibility of a conspiracy and that this whole swineflu hyping can be a smart trick to introduce a NWO and a World Government so the bankers that run our earth can get more control over earth and the economy and its people as our elites have wished for.”

Good thing have figured it out. Now you can save the world be the hero. Sure the previous couple thousand claims Alex Jones has made have been complete nonsense, but that just means he is due to be right.

“Its a smart conspiracy and I cannot prove it yet totally”

Really? Damn.

“but go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON.”

Thanks for the advice. I have a friend, who is a bit of nutcase, and each day sends me a bunch of crap from infowars and prisonplanet which I enjoy reading for a good laugh before bed. I can’t prove that every single they say is baloney, but anything they have talked about in which I have any knowledge is beyond comical.

[QUOTE]To see that this whole mass vaccination plan sounds more like a mass vaccination GENOCIDE.[/QUOTE]

I agree. And every other end of world senario that has daily come out of Alex Jones’ mouth has come true….no wait, they have all been 100% wrong.

What is the difference between a Alex Jones and broken clock? At least a broken clock is right twice a day.

What is the differnce between an Alex Jones follower and someone looking at a broken clock? The person looking at the broken clock will eventually realize that the clock is not accurate.

“SO

go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON”

Yawn. We look forward to your next set of conspiracy theories when this one, like the previous ones, doesn’t come true.

“and if you laugh now let me wake you up”

Thanks. OMG WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!! IT’S THE END OF WORLD!!!

“with a
quote from our all beloved Albert Einsten:

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.
‘Albert Einstein’”

Nice quote. It, and variations of it, has been attributed to more famous people than you can shake a stick at. I have found no actual evidence that Einstein ever said it or any variation of it. Maybe you should have investigated.

“SO DO NOT VIPE OUT THE SWINE FLU AS A POSSIBLE GENOCIDE DEPOPULATION PROGRAM CONSPIRACY AS A POSSIBILITY BEFORE.

check out infowarsDOTcom for more information and weight your options to who you wanna believe….”

So on the one hand I could follow the evidence and get the vaccination. On the other there is a chance in 10^100000000000000 that this is genecide program because some nuts who have a history of saying completely nutty things have made up a new fantasy. Better weigh my options.

“honestly I dont believe skeptics nor infowars.”

Sure you don’t believe inforwars. Go to infowars, go to infowars, go to infowars, go to infowars, go to infowars.

How about this – go read Shermer’s “Why People Believe Weird Things” or Tavris’s “Mistakes Were Made, But Not By Me” or Sagan’s “Demon Haunted World.” You are in desperate need of a baloney detection kit.

“I am open to see what will turn out of this swine flu propaganda mess, it can be GENOCIDE conspiracy, it can be just governments actually care for us and make vaccines to help us out? The truth will be figured out in time, THAT IS ALL I KNOW, even as a scientist.”

Here is what I suspect. When the completely fabricated, fantasy, delusional claims that you are promoting have been shown to be completely fabricated, fantasy, delusional claims (which is already obvious) you will be promoting the next Jones/Icke crackpot fantasy without acknowledging that this one was. See you then.

]]> By: Wayward son http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-677 Wayward son Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:28:09 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-677 "yeah,you dont watch the news," I don't. I do, however, read newspapers and I read everything from a skeptical point of view. I also read medical and science journals. "dont listen to medical experts," Which ones? Mercola? Jenny McCarthy? David Icke? Oprah? Chopra? The Secret? Sorry, I actually care about what relevant experts like virologists, immunologists and public health experts have to say. There is a big difference. [QUOTE]dont listen to nurses,[/QUOTE] Nurses are great. However they are not experts in immunology and virology (nor are they trained in critical thinking about medical issues, which sadly is a hole in medical training across the spectrum, and that is why there were - and still are - a lot of nurses who push complete nonsense healing touch, energy healing, homeopathy and so on. Not a speck of evidence for any of that crap). I have talked to several nurses who actually have no idea how vaccines work and there is nothing wrong with that - it is not their job to know that. Jenny McCarthy was trained as a nurse and there is probably no person on the planet more ignorant about vaccinations. Most people have no knowledge about how vaccines work - she, like most anti-vaxers, has negative knowledge. [QUOTE]but come here to get rational and evidence based thinking. sure, do that! get the shot![/QUOTE] I will be getting the shot. It is not like we haven't heard all this crap many times before. We were bombarded by the same lies and hysteria from you people not long ago about Gardasil. People who listened to the news, some "experts," some nurses, and any of the zillion conspiracy sites, were fed a huge pile of steaming nonsense. Instead, they could have visited some sites which practive skepticism where science, evidence and rationalism is important and read what was actually known (with, of course a bunch of comments from the band of conspiracy loons at the bottom of every piece) and they could have listened to relevant experts. The CTers were 100% completely wrong about Gardasil. You would think that would make them reassess their views this time, actually check the evidence, learn some science, recognize that they were "being lied to" but that those who were doing the lying were their conspiracy friends. But nope, no time to assess their last group of "were all going to die" "nwo" conspiracy theories, as their is something new to become hysterical about. History repeats itself over and over again. “yeah,you dont watch the news,”

I don’t. I do, however, read newspapers and I read everything from a skeptical point of view. I also read medical and science journals.

“dont listen to medical experts,”

Which ones? Mercola? Jenny McCarthy? David Icke? Oprah? Chopra? The Secret?

Sorry, I actually care about what relevant experts like virologists, immunologists and public health experts have to say. There is a big difference.

[QUOTE]dont listen to nurses,[/QUOTE]

Nurses are great. However they are not experts in immunology and virology (nor are they trained in critical thinking about medical issues, which sadly is a hole in medical training across the spectrum, and that is why there were – and still are – a lot of nurses who push complete nonsense healing touch, energy healing, homeopathy and so on. Not a speck of evidence for any of that crap). I have talked to several nurses who actually have no idea how vaccines work and there is nothing wrong with that – it is not their job to know that. Jenny McCarthy was trained as a nurse and there is probably no person on the planet more ignorant about vaccinations. Most people have no knowledge about how vaccines work – she, like most anti-vaxers, has negative knowledge.

[QUOTE]but come here to get rational and evidence based thinking. sure, do that! get the shot![/QUOTE]

I will be getting the shot. It is not like we haven’t heard all this crap many times before. We were bombarded by the same lies and hysteria from you people not long ago about Gardasil. People who listened to the news, some “experts,” some nurses, and any of the zillion conspiracy sites, were fed a huge pile of steaming nonsense. Instead, they could have visited some sites which practive skepticism where science, evidence and rationalism is important and read what was actually known (with, of course a bunch of comments from the band of conspiracy loons at the bottom of every piece) and they could have listened to relevant experts. The CTers were 100% completely wrong about Gardasil. You would think that would make them reassess their views this time, actually check the evidence, learn some science, recognize that they were “being lied to” but that those who were doing the lying were their conspiracy friends. But nope, no time to assess their last group of “were all going to die” “nwo” conspiracy theories, as their is something new to become hysterical about. History repeats itself over and over again.

]]> By: BeSkepticToSkeptic http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-676 BeSkepticToSkeptic Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:17:20 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-676 I am a SKEPTIC to this article. But let me explain why. It isnt that I dont trust that what is being said here dont have some backing from socalled "important" people and scientists etc. but I dont trust governments anymore and mainstreamedia corporations agendas and governments hired science advisors etc. I see a possibility of a conspiracy and that this whole swineflu hyping can be a smart trick to introduce a NWO and a World Government so the bankers that run our earth can get more control over earth and the economy and its people as our elites have wished for. Its a smart conspiracy and I cannot prove it yet totally but go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON. To see that this whole mass vaccination plan sounds more like a mass vaccination GENOCIDE. SO go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON and if you laugh now let me wake you up with a quote from our all beloved Albert Einsten: Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance. 'Albert Einstein' SO DO NOT VIPE OUT THE SWINE FLU AS A POSSIBLE GENOCIDE DEPOPULATION PROGRAM CONSPIRACY AS A POSSIBILITY BEFORE. check out infowarsDOTcom for more information and weight your options to who you wanna believe....honestly I dont believe skeptics nor infowars. I am open to see what will turn out of this swine flu propaganda mess, it can be GENOCIDE conspiracy, it can be just governments actually care for us and make vaccines to help us out? The truth will be figured out in time, THAT IS ALL I KNOW, even as a scientist. I am a SKEPTIC to this article. But let me explain why. It isnt that I dont trust that what is being said here dont have some backing from socalled “important” people and scientists etc. but I dont trust governments anymore and mainstreamedia corporations agendas and governments hired science advisors etc. I see a possibility of a conspiracy and that this whole swineflu hyping can be a smart trick to introduce a NWO and a World Government so the bankers that run our earth can get more control over earth and the economy and its people as our elites have wished for.
Its a smart conspiracy and I cannot prove it yet totally but go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON. To see that this whole mass vaccination plan sounds more like a mass vaccination GENOCIDE.

SO

go to INFOWARSdotCOM and do swineflu research in their search archive to get medical docs and various scientists with other scary views with truth to them about swineflu as a possible GENOCIDE and BIOWEAPON

and if you laugh now let me wake you up with a
quote from our all beloved Albert Einsten:

Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.
‘Albert Einstein’

SO DO NOT VIPE OUT THE SWINE FLU AS A POSSIBLE GENOCIDE DEPOPULATION PROGRAM CONSPIRACY AS A POSSIBILITY BEFORE.

check out infowarsDOTcom for more information and weight your options to who you wanna believe….honestly I dont believe skeptics nor infowars. I am open to see what will turn out of this swine flu propaganda mess, it can be GENOCIDE conspiracy, it can be just governments actually care for us and make vaccines to help us out? The truth will be figured out in time, THAT IS ALL I KNOW, even as a scientist.

]]> By: Arthur Naiman http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-675 Arthur Naiman Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:09:33 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-675 I agree completely about pseudoskeptics becoming apologists for conventional--i.e. corporate--medical approaches. There was a study a while back that showed that doctors only claim to be "following the science," what they actually follow is what the drug reps tell them. I agree completely about pseudoskeptics becoming apologists for conventional–i.e. corporate–medical approaches. There was a study a while back that showed that doctors only claim to be “following the science,” what they actually follow is what the drug reps tell them.

]]> By: Arthur Naiman http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-09-23/#comment-674 Arthur Naiman Sat, 26 Sep 2009 05:36:56 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1401#comment-674 Like most pseudorationalists, Dr. Hall tends to present her prejudices as if they were facts. For example, here's Mercola’s advice for preventing flu: "Eliminate sugar and processed foods from your diet, take a high quality source of animal-based omega 3 fats like Krill Oil, exercise, optimize your vitamin D levels, get plenty of sleep, deal with stress, and wash your hands." And Dr. Hall's response? "Fact: Washing your hands is a good idea." Let's leave aside the obvious point that what is or isn't a good idea can only be an opinion, not a fact. Does she really think that getting enough sleep is useless for building and maintaining immune competence? Or reducing stress, or exercising, or getting enough omega-3 oils, or optimizing vitamin D levels? (How could "optimizing" anything not be a good idea?) If she does, she's flying in the face of science, not defending it. She goes on to say that "some have claimed that taking vitamin D supplements will prevent the flu, but there is no evidence to support that." And yet there's tons of evidence that most Americans are deficient in vitamin D, and no disagreement whatever that low levels of vitamin D compromise immune health. For example, see the New England Journal of Medicine (Volume 357:266-281, July 19, 2007, Number 3), or Arch. Intern. Med. 168 (15): 1629–37, which concludes that low levels of vitamin D are independently associated with an increase in all-cause mortality. (These are just two examples among zillions.) If Dr. Hall wants to present herself as science-based, she should pay a bit more attention to the science. Like most pseudorationalists, Dr. Hall tends to present her prejudices as if they were facts. For example, here’s Mercola’s advice for preventing flu: “Eliminate sugar and processed foods from your diet, take a high quality source of animal-based omega 3 fats like Krill Oil, exercise, optimize your vitamin D levels, get plenty of sleep, deal with stress, and wash your hands.” And Dr. Hall’s response? “Fact: Washing your hands is a good idea.”

Let’s leave aside the obvious point that what is or isn’t a good idea can only be an opinion, not a fact. Does she really think that getting enough sleep is useless for building and maintaining immune competence? Or reducing stress, or exercising, or getting enough omega-3 oils, or optimizing vitamin D levels? (How could “optimizing” anything not be a good idea?) If she does, she’s flying in the face of science, not defending it.

She goes on to say that “some have claimed that taking vitamin D supplements will prevent the flu, but there is no evidence to support that.” And yet there’s tons of evidence that most Americans are deficient in vitamin D, and no disagreement whatever that low levels of vitamin D compromise immune health. For example, see the New England Journal of Medicine (Volume 357:266-281, July 19, 2007, Number 3), or Arch. Intern. Med. 168 (15): 1629–37, which concludes that low levels of vitamin D are independently associated with an increase in all-cause mortality. (These are just two examples among zillions.) If Dr. Hall wants to present herself as science-based, she should pay a bit more attention to the science.

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