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	<title>Comments on: 09-10-21</title>
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		<title>By: Luden</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-5333</link>
		<dc:creator>Luden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-5333</guid>
		<description>Although her death did occur after having a chiropractic neck manipulation there has not been a cause and effect relationship established between chiropractic manipulation therapies and vertebral artery dissection. Studies have shown that patients who see their medical doctor for symptoms of vertebral artery dissection are just as likely to experience a stroke as those who seek chiropractic care. Your description of chiropractic manipulation as a violent twisting of the neck which causes vertebral artery dissection is inaccurate and misleading, if the adjustment was performed as taught in accredited chiropractic colleges. 
Your claim that there is no medically proven benefit to adjusting the cervical spine is also false. The benefits of cervical adjusting for reduction of pain, radicular symptoms and headaches are vast. Beyond that a recent study showed that chiropractic manipulation of the upper cervical spine creates a sustained measurable dropped in systolic blood pressure. This is just one of the few benefits of chiropractic manipulation. 
Lastly, it must be recognized that not all Chiropractors practice the subluxation theory. Many chiropractors practice very differently from this using evidence based practice and treating areas of hypo-mobility, disc herniation, and soft tissue dysfunction, among other issues. These more modern chiropractors tend to recognize the “bone out of place” pressing on a nerve model as outdated and unlikely and are trained to diagnose and treat what they can and recognize and refer problems that may be outside their scope of practice. Chiropractors are indeed well trained competent doctors who undergo rigorous schooling and board certification. Chiropractors are not medical doctors and do not claim to be but that does not make them any less competent in their diagnoses or treatments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although her death did occur after having a chiropractic neck manipulation there has not been a cause and effect relationship established between chiropractic manipulation therapies and vertebral artery dissection. Studies have shown that patients who see their medical doctor for symptoms of vertebral artery dissection are just as likely to experience a stroke as those who seek chiropractic care. Your description of chiropractic manipulation as a violent twisting of the neck which causes vertebral artery dissection is inaccurate and misleading, if the adjustment was performed as taught in accredited chiropractic colleges.<br />
Your claim that there is no medically proven benefit to adjusting the cervical spine is also false. The benefits of cervical adjusting for reduction of pain, radicular symptoms and headaches are vast. Beyond that a recent study showed that chiropractic manipulation of the upper cervical spine creates a sustained measurable dropped in systolic blood pressure. This is just one of the few benefits of chiropractic manipulation.<br />
Lastly, it must be recognized that not all Chiropractors practice the subluxation theory. Many chiropractors practice very differently from this using evidence based practice and treating areas of hypo-mobility, disc herniation, and soft tissue dysfunction, among other issues. These more modern chiropractors tend to recognize the “bone out of place” pressing on a nerve model as outdated and unlikely and are trained to diagnose and treat what they can and recognize and refer problems that may be outside their scope of practice. Chiropractors are indeed well trained competent doctors who undergo rigorous schooling and board certification. Chiropractors are not medical doctors and do not claim to be but that does not make them any less competent in their diagnoses or treatments.</p>
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		<title>By: bodhi2600</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-4842</link>
		<dc:creator>bodhi2600</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-4842</guid>
		<description>The Safety of Cervical Manipulation: Putting Stroke Risk in Perspective
By Anthony Rosner, PhD, LLD [Hon.], LLC

Several studies have attempted to link chiropractic manipulation to adverse events, the most serious and widely studied being strokes following dissections of the vertebral artery.1-6 To begin to shed light on this problem, several retrospective studies against large population bases have been conducted.
 a large sampling of such studies indicates that the number of serious complications or cerebrovascular accidents (CVAs), as established by researchers from both the chiropractic and medical professions, ranges from one case per 400,000 manipulations to zero in 5 million.

Data from the Rand Corporation suggests the rate of vertebrobasilar accident or other complications (cord compression, fracture or hematoma) is just 1.46 per million manipulations, with the rates of serious complications and death from cervical spine manipulation estimated to be 0.64 and 0.27 per million manipulations, respectively.

The risk estimates attributed to cervical manipulation are significantly less (by orders of magnitude) than those associated with various medical procedures and lifestyle activities, as shown in Table 2.16,17-23 In an exhaustive review of risk estimates from multiple phases of life, it can be seen that substantially greater risks attributed to the medical procedures have been deemed &quot;acceptable&quot; by the routine adoption of such terminologies as risk-adjusted mortality rates and net clinical benefits.24 The risks inherent in other lifestyle activities, also appearing to be readily accepted by the public at large, are apparent in Table 2 and again outweigh those associated with cervical manipulation by several orders of magnitude, in striking contrast to the dire warnings about the risks of cervical manipulation in the media.
for complete article see:
http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=55350

dd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Safety of Cervical Manipulation: Putting Stroke Risk in Perspective<br />
By Anthony Rosner, PhD, LLD [Hon.], LLC</p>
<p>Several studies have attempted to link chiropractic manipulation to adverse events, the most serious and widely studied being strokes following dissections of the vertebral artery.1-6 To begin to shed light on this problem, several retrospective studies against large population bases have been conducted.<br />
 a large sampling of such studies indicates that the number of serious complications or cerebrovascular accidents (CVAs), as established by researchers from both the chiropractic and medical professions, ranges from one case per 400,000 manipulations to zero in 5 million.</p>
<p>Data from the Rand Corporation suggests the rate of vertebrobasilar accident or other complications (cord compression, fracture or hematoma) is just 1.46 per million manipulations, with the rates of serious complications and death from cervical spine manipulation estimated to be 0.64 and 0.27 per million manipulations, respectively.</p>
<p>The risk estimates attributed to cervical manipulation are significantly less (by orders of magnitude) than those associated with various medical procedures and lifestyle activities, as shown in Table 2.16,17-23 In an exhaustive review of risk estimates from multiple phases of life, it can be seen that substantially greater risks attributed to the medical procedures have been deemed &#8220;acceptable&#8221; by the routine adoption of such terminologies as risk-adjusted mortality rates and net clinical benefits.24 The risks inherent in other lifestyle activities, also appearing to be readily accepted by the public at large, are apparent in Table 2 and again outweigh those associated with cervical manipulation by several orders of magnitude, in striking contrast to the dire warnings about the risks of cervical manipulation in the media.<br />
for complete article see:<br />
<a href="http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=55350" rel="nofollow">http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=55350</a></p>
<p>dd</p>
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		<title>By: bodhi2600</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-4776</link>
		<dc:creator>bodhi2600</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 00:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-4776</guid>
		<description>Dear Dr. Shermer,

interesting, your skeptical stance on chiropractic (feature article, fatal adjustments, how chiropractic kills) maybe you&#039;re also skeptical concerning the value of hairdressers as well. VBS is known to occur in their care too. a little hair washing, a little rotation and stroke goes the unsuspecting customer.

now, how about providing some equally interesting information on iatrogenic illness and death. 

  a few stats concerning patient deaths due to medical procedures will certainly quell the arrogance of your medical brothers.

i just purchased your book, the believing brain. haven&#039;t started it yet but i must admit...
 now i&#039;m a bit worried about your selective focus.

dd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Dr. Shermer,</p>
<p>interesting, your skeptical stance on chiropractic (feature article, fatal adjustments, how chiropractic kills) maybe you&#8217;re also skeptical concerning the value of hairdressers as well. VBS is known to occur in their care too. a little hair washing, a little rotation and stroke goes the unsuspecting customer.</p>
<p>now, how about providing some equally interesting information on iatrogenic illness and death. </p>
<p>  a few stats concerning patient deaths due to medical procedures will certainly quell the arrogance of your medical brothers.</p>
<p>i just purchased your book, the believing brain. haven&#8217;t started it yet but i must admit&#8230;<br />
 now i&#8217;m a bit worried about your selective focus.</p>
<p>dd</p>
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		<title>By: chappie</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-4113</link>
		<dc:creator>chappie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-4113</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen chiropractors for 30 years off and on.  Some are better than others.  The best are great.  The drug industry, surgeons and most MD&#039;s know that money talks and thats really all they care about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen chiropractors for 30 years off and on.  Some are better than others.  The best are great.  The drug industry, surgeons and most MD&#8217;s know that money talks and thats really all they care about.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-3149</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Mar 2011 05:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-3149</guid>
		<description>I am a chiropractor. 

It&#039;s quite amazing to me, that MD&#039;s get so caught up in the &quot;chiropractors aren&#039;t REAL doctors&quot; stuff... I never will understand it. Why do you really care? Moreover, why does someone like an RN (with two or three years) feel the need to bash a chiropractor who has at least eight years of college (WELL beyond anything a nurse does). By the way, my mother and sister are RN&#039;s... which I greatly respect. Like I always say, RN&#039;s get great bang for their educational buck. I don&#039;t know too many other jobs where you can go to school for as little as two or three years and command $45,000 plus in most places. My mother&#039;s pay is approaching $80,000 a year... wonderful money for where we live.
 
Are there bad chiropractors? ABSOLUTELY. Do the bad chiropractors outnumber the good ones? I honestly couldn&#039;t tell you, but perhaps. Do I feel I can cure everything? No way.
 
Here&#039;s what I can tell you. I evaluate everyone on a case-by-case basis. There is no... &quot;Come in three times a week&quot;... until you run out of money or until time ends.
I often hear, &quot;Chiropractors want you to continue to see them for the rest of your life&quot;. Yeah... and that&#039;s different than any other &quot;doctor&quot; how??? Yep... in 1st grade my eye doctor told me, your eyes are good, don&#039;t worry about every checking them again. In fourth grade, the dentist told me, don&#039;t come back again... your teeth are all perfect. 

So let me get this straight... I should monitor what&#039;s going on with my teeth... and I should monitor what&#039;s going on with my eyes, but to say to hell with my spine? 

I have a couple more ABSOLUTELY TRUE comments (god strike me dead)...

Last year my wife was in a MVA... she totaled her car. I began working on her right away. I used all the therapies you&#039;d find in a physical therapists office, but I also adjusted her. Within three weeks she was at about 80%. It took another month before that last little bit of pain reduced to nothing. About a week after that, it was Christmas and my brother-in-law comes to town. He asks my wife, &quot;So, after the accident, what doctor did you see?&quot; My wife tells him I worked on her. He says, &quot;No, I mean a real doctor&quot;... which was fine with me, because I&#039;ve heard all of this type of talk directly from their mouths (actually... it&#039;s ALWAYS online and never face-to-face). Here is my question: What would a &quot;real doctor&quot; do with whiplash/muscle spasms? Let&#039;s see... here&#039;s a script for pain relief, and here&#039;s a muscle relaxer. Oh, and I almost forgot... he&#039;s a script for the physical therapist down the road so he/she can try and fix you later. 
MD&#039;s that work in the emergency rooms and in trauma are AMAZING. What I do doesn&#039;t compare to that. But what most MD&#039;s do... is sit in an office, running from room to room prescribing the same thing over and over. 

An accident patient I have been seeing the past month weeks (because physical therapy FAILED horribly), came liming into my office after she had missed the past two weeks of appointments with me. I asked what happened and she said, &quot;I don&#039;t know... my knee started bothering me 10 days ago and I went to the MD. He thought it might be a blood clot behind my knee and I was rushed to the ER. After determining it wasn&#039;t a blood clot, I was sent to an orthopedic surgeon decided he couldn&#039;t do anything with it either... so I was prescribed pain killers and muscle relaxers&quot; (surprise, surprise). So, 10 days later you&#039;re still stumbling around? &quot;YEP... and it&#039;s still killing me, I can&#039;t straighten my leg out.&quot; I loosened the muscles using the activator and trigger point... then adjusted the knee. Leaving the office she was about 50% better than when she came in. By the next morning she was 90% better. Two days later she was at or near 100%. Who knows how long it would have taken if I were a &quot;real doctor&quot;. 

Lastly... this is just a GEM... from just today too:
I had a patient come into my office (she was referred specifically to me because she heard I was excellent) in SEVERE low back pain. It was so severe I could barely do any orthopedic tests on her. She told me about the burning... the numbness... the shooting pain into the foot and the toes. It was pretty clear to me she needed an MRI stat. I have been practicing for three years as a chiropractor, and I almost instantly know when someone is hurt beyond what I can do for them. (I don&#039;t like surgery because of the many bad results I&#039;ve seen, but sometimes you have no choice.) I wrote the script for the MRI. The patient had already made an appointment with a female D.0. before she came to my office. So, the day after she left my office, she went to that appointment. The D.0. told her she has nerve damage and needs an x-ray first. Ummm... Okay... x-rays are exactly what I like to order to ensure I get great detailed views of the soft tissue. So the D.0. orders the x-rays, I order the MRI. Of course the x-rays showed next to nothing and the MRI showed extensive damage to L5-S1 disc. I of course call the patient and recommend she get a consult with one of the better back surgeons I know down the road. This surgeon will ofter alternatives... shoots... never block, before jumping to surgery. The D.O. refers the patient to: (drum roll please)....... ..... ...... a hip and knee specialist?!?!?! WTF??????? When I talked with the patient, even THEY were questioning why they would be going to a HIP and KNEE specialist. ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I and with that I said to the patient... and many of these &quot;guys&quot; have the nerve to call us &quot;quacks&quot;. 

In closing... there are bad chiropractors. There are also bad MD&#039;s, D0&#039;s, RN&#039;s, PT&#039;s, lawyers... etc. It&#039;s not cool to bash all of us because YOU think what we do is BS. By the way, I refer to MD&#039;s and PT&#039;s... because it&#039;s the right thing to do. Heck, last month I had a new patient come in with significant back pain. On her second visit the pain had not significantly improved (which is rare in my clinic). A couple of kidney punches later I determined she needed to see her MD immediately as I suspected a kidney infection. Patient got in the next day, had the labs done where it confirmed the kidney infection. It was just in time, as the patient was two days away from going on a vacation out of the country. 

Anyway... can&#039;t we all just get along??? (Apparently not)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a chiropractor. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite amazing to me, that MD&#8217;s get so caught up in the &#8220;chiropractors aren&#8217;t REAL doctors&#8221; stuff&#8230; I never will understand it. Why do you really care? Moreover, why does someone like an RN (with two or three years) feel the need to bash a chiropractor who has at least eight years of college (WELL beyond anything a nurse does). By the way, my mother and sister are RN&#8217;s&#8230; which I greatly respect. Like I always say, RN&#8217;s get great bang for their educational buck. I don&#8217;t know too many other jobs where you can go to school for as little as two or three years and command $45,000 plus in most places. My mother&#8217;s pay is approaching $80,000 a year&#8230; wonderful money for where we live.</p>
<p>Are there bad chiropractors? ABSOLUTELY. Do the bad chiropractors outnumber the good ones? I honestly couldn&#8217;t tell you, but perhaps. Do I feel I can cure everything? No way.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what I can tell you. I evaluate everyone on a case-by-case basis. There is no&#8230; &#8220;Come in three times a week&#8221;&#8230; until you run out of money or until time ends.<br />
I often hear, &#8220;Chiropractors want you to continue to see them for the rest of your life&#8221;. Yeah&#8230; and that&#8217;s different than any other &#8220;doctor&#8221; how??? Yep&#8230; in 1st grade my eye doctor told me, your eyes are good, don&#8217;t worry about every checking them again. In fourth grade, the dentist told me, don&#8217;t come back again&#8230; your teeth are all perfect. </p>
<p>So let me get this straight&#8230; I should monitor what&#8217;s going on with my teeth&#8230; and I should monitor what&#8217;s going on with my eyes, but to say to hell with my spine? </p>
<p>I have a couple more ABSOLUTELY TRUE comments (god strike me dead)&#8230;</p>
<p>Last year my wife was in a MVA&#8230; she totaled her car. I began working on her right away. I used all the therapies you&#8217;d find in a physical therapists office, but I also adjusted her. Within three weeks she was at about 80%. It took another month before that last little bit of pain reduced to nothing. About a week after that, it was Christmas and my brother-in-law comes to town. He asks my wife, &#8220;So, after the accident, what doctor did you see?&#8221; My wife tells him I worked on her. He says, &#8220;No, I mean a real doctor&#8221;&#8230; which was fine with me, because I&#8217;ve heard all of this type of talk directly from their mouths (actually&#8230; it&#8217;s ALWAYS online and never face-to-face). Here is my question: What would a &#8220;real doctor&#8221; do with whiplash/muscle spasms? Let&#8217;s see&#8230; here&#8217;s a script for pain relief, and here&#8217;s a muscle relaxer. Oh, and I almost forgot&#8230; he&#8217;s a script for the physical therapist down the road so he/she can try and fix you later.<br />
MD&#8217;s that work in the emergency rooms and in trauma are AMAZING. What I do doesn&#8217;t compare to that. But what most MD&#8217;s do&#8230; is sit in an office, running from room to room prescribing the same thing over and over. </p>
<p>An accident patient I have been seeing the past month weeks (because physical therapy FAILED horribly), came liming into my office after she had missed the past two weeks of appointments with me. I asked what happened and she said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8230; my knee started bothering me 10 days ago and I went to the MD. He thought it might be a blood clot behind my knee and I was rushed to the ER. After determining it wasn&#8217;t a blood clot, I was sent to an orthopedic surgeon decided he couldn&#8217;t do anything with it either&#8230; so I was prescribed pain killers and muscle relaxers&#8221; (surprise, surprise). So, 10 days later you&#8217;re still stumbling around? &#8220;YEP&#8230; and it&#8217;s still killing me, I can&#8217;t straighten my leg out.&#8221; I loosened the muscles using the activator and trigger point&#8230; then adjusted the knee. Leaving the office she was about 50% better than when she came in. By the next morning she was 90% better. Two days later she was at or near 100%. Who knows how long it would have taken if I were a &#8220;real doctor&#8221;. </p>
<p>Lastly&#8230; this is just a GEM&#8230; from just today too:<br />
I had a patient come into my office (she was referred specifically to me because she heard I was excellent) in SEVERE low back pain. It was so severe I could barely do any orthopedic tests on her. She told me about the burning&#8230; the numbness&#8230; the shooting pain into the foot and the toes. It was pretty clear to me she needed an MRI stat. I have been practicing for three years as a chiropractor, and I almost instantly know when someone is hurt beyond what I can do for them. (I don&#8217;t like surgery because of the many bad results I&#8217;ve seen, but sometimes you have no choice.) I wrote the script for the MRI. The patient had already made an appointment with a female D.0. before she came to my office. So, the day after she left my office, she went to that appointment. The D.0. told her she has nerve damage and needs an x-ray first. Ummm&#8230; Okay&#8230; x-rays are exactly what I like to order to ensure I get great detailed views of the soft tissue. So the D.0. orders the x-rays, I order the MRI. Of course the x-rays showed next to nothing and the MRI showed extensive damage to L5-S1 disc. I of course call the patient and recommend she get a consult with one of the better back surgeons I know down the road. This surgeon will ofter alternatives&#8230; shoots&#8230; never block, before jumping to surgery. The D.O. refers the patient to: (drum roll please)&#8230;&#8230;. &#8230;.. &#8230;&#8230; a hip and knee specialist?!?!?! WTF??????? When I talked with the patient, even THEY were questioning why they would be going to a HIP and KNEE specialist. ABSOLUTELY TRUE. I and with that I said to the patient&#8230; and many of these &#8220;guys&#8221; have the nerve to call us &#8220;quacks&#8221;. </p>
<p>In closing&#8230; there are bad chiropractors. There are also bad MD&#8217;s, D0&#8242;s, RN&#8217;s, PT&#8217;s, lawyers&#8230; etc. It&#8217;s not cool to bash all of us because YOU think what we do is BS. By the way, I refer to MD&#8217;s and PT&#8217;s&#8230; because it&#8217;s the right thing to do. Heck, last month I had a new patient come in with significant back pain. On her second visit the pain had not significantly improved (which is rare in my clinic). A couple of kidney punches later I determined she needed to see her MD immediately as I suspected a kidney infection. Patient got in the next day, had the labs done where it confirmed the kidney infection. It was just in time, as the patient was two days away from going on a vacation out of the country. </p>
<p>Anyway&#8230; can&#8217;t we all just get along??? (Apparently not)</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-2583</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-2583</guid>
		<description>Please all you Chiros trying to defend a practice that has no basis in anything other than in your minds, sublexation is a theory never proven to do anything, placebo effect is as high as 60%, you could hit ur victims in the head with a bag o crap and cure them.  If you wanted to be a real health care provider should have went to MD school, but I bet you tired that.  I have never met a person that stated they wanted to grow up and be a chiro and I have never heard of anyone not being admitted to chiro schools.  On top of that, when you look at chiro bios, most are hacks that went to little know colleges and might have graduated, then after boucing around at various jobs decided on chiro school or should i say &#039;learn how to bill medicare/caid school&#039;. Chiros stick to your fring pseudo science and sleep in the bed u made.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please all you Chiros trying to defend a practice that has no basis in anything other than in your minds, sublexation is a theory never proven to do anything, placebo effect is as high as 60%, you could hit ur victims in the head with a bag o crap and cure them.  If you wanted to be a real health care provider should have went to MD school, but I bet you tired that.  I have never met a person that stated they wanted to grow up and be a chiro and I have never heard of anyone not being admitted to chiro schools.  On top of that, when you look at chiro bios, most are hacks that went to little know colleges and might have graduated, then after boucing around at various jobs decided on chiro school or should i say &#8216;learn how to bill medicare/caid school&#8217;. Chiros stick to your fring pseudo science and sleep in the bed u made.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-2400</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-2400</guid>
		<description>I remember the great astronomer an alternative medicine skeptic Carl Sagan who proclaimed that the science behind astronomy is the same science behind medicine that would cure him. He died a few months later from the iatrogenic effects of his chemo and radiation treatments.
The medical industry is the number one cause of death, higher than cancer,heart disease,diabetes,suicide,murder,and car car accidents COMBINED. 
It was medical doctors that devised the Nazi extermination factories and performed horrible experiments on inmates.
Medicine has no cure for 99% of all illness. Even the simple common cold eludes the medical profession. There has been no improvement in most cancers. Doctors consider a cancer patient cured if they live 5 years. Well guess what, without chemo and radiation, most cancer patients will live well beyond 5 years. You see, its the medical treatments that kill the patient. I urge you to look into what I  have posted. The truth is out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember the great astronomer an alternative medicine skeptic Carl Sagan who proclaimed that the science behind astronomy is the same science behind medicine that would cure him. He died a few months later from the iatrogenic effects of his chemo and radiation treatments.<br />
The medical industry is the number one cause of death, higher than cancer,heart disease,diabetes,suicide,murder,and car car accidents COMBINED.<br />
It was medical doctors that devised the Nazi extermination factories and performed horrible experiments on inmates.<br />
Medicine has no cure for 99% of all illness. Even the simple common cold eludes the medical profession. There has been no improvement in most cancers. Doctors consider a cancer patient cured if they live 5 years. Well guess what, without chemo and radiation, most cancer patients will live well beyond 5 years. You see, its the medical treatments that kill the patient. I urge you to look into what I  have posted. The truth is out there.</p>
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		<title>By: jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-2386</link>
		<dc:creator>jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-2386</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m more confused than ever after reading this.

The article and many comments seem to perpetuate the chest-thumping cynicism of MDs, particularly surgeons and specialists, that I&#039;ve observed.  There seems to be an attitude that anyone who hasn&#039;t been through the torture (their words, not mine) of many years of traditional medical school and internship/residency can&#039;t possibly have valid ideas that contradict their own.  It&#039;s almost as if their difficult education has caused psychological trauma and PTSD is preventing them from applying common sense and empirical observation to alternative therapies.

As an example, I recently became interested in the alternative therapies of Dr. Andrew Weil, who runs his own center based at U. of Arizona Medical School.  I was curious but skeptical, and wanted to shortcut researching their efficacy myself by asking some specialists at that medical school what they think of his practice.  Their response was simply &quot;well, he didn&#039;t even do a residency.&quot;  

I thought, well there must be some efficacy to his methods if this well-respected medical school would give him his own department.  Presumably he&#039;s shown some scientifically valid results.  But all they could tell me was that he didn&#039;t have to go through the years of grueling work (some might say hazing) that we did, so he&#039;s probably a sham.  This is hardly a scientific approach.

I read this article without a clear opinion for or against chiropractic, but leaning against it just based on common hearsay of its quackery.  I&#039;ve never been to a chiropractor (am wary of anyone messing with something as sensitive as my spine). And I stay away from MDs as well whenever possible (don&#039;t trust the influence of big pharma and the high costs they have to cover to maintain their practice).  I would consider myself an open-minded skeptic and relatively neutral.  

Now, I still have no idea who to believe.  I&#039;m beginning to think that perhaps most MDs have too much baggage to properly evaluate anything outside their own training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m more confused than ever after reading this.</p>
<p>The article and many comments seem to perpetuate the chest-thumping cynicism of MDs, particularly surgeons and specialists, that I&#8217;ve observed.  There seems to be an attitude that anyone who hasn&#8217;t been through the torture (their words, not mine) of many years of traditional medical school and internship/residency can&#8217;t possibly have valid ideas that contradict their own.  It&#8217;s almost as if their difficult education has caused psychological trauma and PTSD is preventing them from applying common sense and empirical observation to alternative therapies.</p>
<p>As an example, I recently became interested in the alternative therapies of Dr. Andrew Weil, who runs his own center based at U. of Arizona Medical School.  I was curious but skeptical, and wanted to shortcut researching their efficacy myself by asking some specialists at that medical school what they think of his practice.  Their response was simply &#8220;well, he didn&#8217;t even do a residency.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I thought, well there must be some efficacy to his methods if this well-respected medical school would give him his own department.  Presumably he&#8217;s shown some scientifically valid results.  But all they could tell me was that he didn&#8217;t have to go through the years of grueling work (some might say hazing) that we did, so he&#8217;s probably a sham.  This is hardly a scientific approach.</p>
<p>I read this article without a clear opinion for or against chiropractic, but leaning against it just based on common hearsay of its quackery.  I&#8217;ve never been to a chiropractor (am wary of anyone messing with something as sensitive as my spine). And I stay away from MDs as well whenever possible (don&#8217;t trust the influence of big pharma and the high costs they have to cover to maintain their practice).  I would consider myself an open-minded skeptic and relatively neutral.  </p>
<p>Now, I still have no idea who to believe.  I&#8217;m beginning to think that perhaps most MDs have too much baggage to properly evaluate anything outside their own training.</p>
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		<title>By: Spelling bee</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator>Spelling bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 22:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-2314</guid>
		<description>How about you study English instead of medicine? Your spelling of &quot;your&quot; should have been &quot;you&#039;re&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about you study English instead of medicine? Your spelling of &#8220;your&#8221; should have been &#8220;you&#8217;re&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-10-21/#comment-2007</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 23:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skeptic.com/?p=1656#comment-2007</guid>
		<description>Science-Based Medicine?  You gotta be kidding me.  Where&#039;s the science?  Can you find it in the research that supposedly supported making Statins the most prescribed drug in the world?  Sorry.  The evidence is clear:  they don&#039;t work.  Go here to get clear on that:  http://thehealthyskeptic.org/images/statintrialsummary.pdf   Yet the American Heart Ass. continues to recommend them as well as (and this is about as lame as it gets) recommending the same low fat, high carb diet that was proven to be a major CAUSE  of heart disease as well as diabetes!  Where&#039;s the science?  Where&#039;s the evidence?  

Every time I see some type of &quot;skeptic&quot; (what a truly ridiculous word) bashing chiropractic, they use the exact same argument as the ones before.  Sure it&#039;s easy to poke fun at D.D. Palmer.  He was a quirky guy.  Magnetic healer?  The science is clear and plentiful that there is clear and measurable therapeutic effect from the laying on of hands in most any form.  Look it up for yourself silly skeptic.  Fact is, Palmer was a visionary (yes, a weird guy, too).  He appreciated, perhaps for the first time in modern history, that there was some form of intelligence that underlies the function of the human body.  To deny the presence of this intelligence and promote the idea that all of life is just a series of mechanistic or chemical reactions is...well...too incredibly narrow a view to even deal with here.  You need more help than I can give you.  

Chiropractic, when properly practiced, deals with stress and interference in the nervous system.  Remember...that system that controls every function of the body and mind?  Medicine has never even considered that something might just be wrong with this fundamental communication system except as deep pathology such as MS.  Isn&#039;t it at least possible that nerve system interference could be related to some forms of disease?  How ignorant not to consider such a premise or to dismiss it based on your egotistical and incomplete views.  Does this mean that chiropractic is the cure for all ills?  Certainly not.  Just that a dysfunctional nerve system is a serious thing and should be considered ALWAYS before prescribing toxic drugs or dangerous surgery.  Is that such a radical idea?  If you answered yes, ask yourself how many people that you know are truly healthier as a result of such treatment.  HEALTHIER = MORE energy, MORE vitality, MORE peace and well being, MORE ease and flexibility in the body and so on (sounds a lot like my patients).  Do your medical friends really experience that, because I have rarely seen it in over 20 years of practice.  

In summary, I just want to say that most of you &quot;skeptics&quot; seem far more interested in being right without any real critical thinking on your parts.  That makes you look really dumb to anyone but your own little inbred circle.  I have tested the chiropractic premise again and again over the past 20 years.  And while it&#039;s certainly not intended to be a panacea for all disease, it has come through so many times that your little minds would probably explode if you took a really objective look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science-Based Medicine?  You gotta be kidding me.  Where&#8217;s the science?  Can you find it in the research that supposedly supported making Statins the most prescribed drug in the world?  Sorry.  The evidence is clear:  they don&#8217;t work.  Go here to get clear on that:  <a href="http://thehealthyskeptic.org/images/statintrialsummary.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://thehealthyskeptic.org/images/statintrialsummary.pdf</a>   Yet the American Heart Ass. continues to recommend them as well as (and this is about as lame as it gets) recommending the same low fat, high carb diet that was proven to be a major CAUSE  of heart disease as well as diabetes!  Where&#8217;s the science?  Where&#8217;s the evidence?  </p>
<p>Every time I see some type of &#8220;skeptic&#8221; (what a truly ridiculous word) bashing chiropractic, they use the exact same argument as the ones before.  Sure it&#8217;s easy to poke fun at D.D. Palmer.  He was a quirky guy.  Magnetic healer?  The science is clear and plentiful that there is clear and measurable therapeutic effect from the laying on of hands in most any form.  Look it up for yourself silly skeptic.  Fact is, Palmer was a visionary (yes, a weird guy, too).  He appreciated, perhaps for the first time in modern history, that there was some form of intelligence that underlies the function of the human body.  To deny the presence of this intelligence and promote the idea that all of life is just a series of mechanistic or chemical reactions is&#8230;well&#8230;too incredibly narrow a view to even deal with here.  You need more help than I can give you.  </p>
<p>Chiropractic, when properly practiced, deals with stress and interference in the nervous system.  Remember&#8230;that system that controls every function of the body and mind?  Medicine has never even considered that something might just be wrong with this fundamental communication system except as deep pathology such as MS.  Isn&#8217;t it at least possible that nerve system interference could be related to some forms of disease?  How ignorant not to consider such a premise or to dismiss it based on your egotistical and incomplete views.  Does this mean that chiropractic is the cure for all ills?  Certainly not.  Just that a dysfunctional nerve system is a serious thing and should be considered ALWAYS before prescribing toxic drugs or dangerous surgery.  Is that such a radical idea?  If you answered yes, ask yourself how many people that you know are truly healthier as a result of such treatment.  HEALTHIER = MORE energy, MORE vitality, MORE peace and well being, MORE ease and flexibility in the body and so on (sounds a lot like my patients).  Do your medical friends really experience that, because I have rarely seen it in over 20 years of practice.  </p>
<p>In summary, I just want to say that most of you &#8220;skeptics&#8221; seem far more interested in being right without any real critical thinking on your parts.  That makes you look really dumb to anyone but your own little inbred circle.  I have tested the chiropractic premise again and again over the past 20 years.  And while it&#8217;s certainly not intended to be a panacea for all disease, it has come through so many times that your little minds would probably explode if you took a really objective look.</p>
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