Comments on: 10-03-03 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/ Promoting Science and Critical Thinking Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:04:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Fly1965 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-5204 Fly1965 Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:40:23 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-5204 Brian, I think you miss the point. If a person is suspicious of the government, nothing David Naiditch, you or I say to the contrary will change their opinion. These folks aren't looking for a logical, scientific explanation; rather, they're only reading the article for reinforcement of their beliefs. A great example is the conspiracy theory that we have never been to the Moon. They say the shadows are all wrong, and the footprints are fishy, and the flag is blowing, and etc ... And nothing you tell such a person will change their mind. Even if you gathered up every living astronaut and paraded them in front of these people for interviews, most would politely ask questions, nod respectfully, and act genuinely satisfied. Once the interviews were over, they'd emphatically swear the government had choreographed all the answers to hide the conspiracy! Of course, what do I know? I spent 20 years in the USAF, so maybe I'm just part of the cover up. :) Brian, I think you miss the point. If a person is suspicious of the government, nothing David Naiditch, you or I say to the contrary will change their opinion. These folks aren’t looking for a logical, scientific explanation; rather, they’re only reading the article for reinforcement of their beliefs. A great example is the conspiracy theory that we have never been to the Moon. They say the shadows are all wrong, and the footprints are fishy, and the flag is blowing, and etc … And nothing you tell such a person will change their mind. Even if you gathered up every living astronaut and paraded them in front of these people for interviews, most would politely ask questions, nod respectfully, and act genuinely satisfied. Once the interviews were over, they’d emphatically swear the government had choreographed all the answers to hide the conspiracy! Of course, what do I know? I spent 20 years in the USAF, so maybe I’m just part of the cover up. :)

]]> By: jimmy joo http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-5201 jimmy joo Wed, 18 Jan 2012 02:07:17 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-5201 Seriosuly we all want to know but never will soo its all in your mind untill the day something happens! Seriosuly we all want to know but never will soo its all in your mind untill the day something happens!

]]> By: jimmy joo http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-5200 jimmy joo Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:54:00 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-5200 K seriously I just read these posts and I understand beliefs are a very powerful thing, the government could possibly make false statements that may be claimed true, the goverrnment makes these arguments on these projecs simply tsway the beliefs of the status quo and also to ensue fear in those that believe, mind control? I think not. These statements made in comments make sense but do not provide enough valid information. I think that this facility is completely harmless. The only military apllications to it are used against our enemies and others but not us soo stop making outrageous assumpptions and go find out for yourself. K seriously I just read these posts and I understand beliefs are a very powerful thing, the government could possibly make false statements that may be claimed true, the goverrnment makes these arguments on these projecs simply tsway the beliefs of the status quo and also to ensue fear in those that believe, mind control? I think not. These statements made in comments make sense but do not provide enough valid information. I think that this facility is completely harmless. The only military apllications to it are used against our enemies and others but not us soo stop making outrageous assumpptions and go find out for yourself.

]]> By: Jim Speiser http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-5198 Jim Speiser Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:38:45 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-5198 A simple question: Does the HAARP facility have a Public Information Officer? A simple email correspondence might settle a lot. Why don't the denizens of this thread construct a series of questions that might be asked, and the editors of SKEPTIC compile them and send them to the PIO? Sure, if it's really an evil government project to destroy the atmosphere or kill flocks of birds, there will be evasiveness in the answers...but that in itself may say a lot, and pique the interest of those of us who remain skeptical. Worth a try? A simple question: Does the HAARP facility have a Public Information Officer? A simple email correspondence might settle a lot. Why don’t the denizens of this thread construct a series of questions that might be asked, and the editors of SKEPTIC compile them and send them to the PIO? Sure, if it’s really an evil government project to destroy the atmosphere or kill flocks of birds, there will be evasiveness in the answers…but that in itself may say a lot, and pique the interest of those of us who remain skeptical. Worth a try?

]]> By: ashley http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-5187 ashley Sun, 15 Jan 2012 15:27:44 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-5187 if you actually watched the documentaries you mentioned in this article, perhaps you'd be haarping to a different tune ... as someone who collects pro audio gear from the soviet era, I can tell you that Tesla mics sound and are far better than mics that sell in America for thousands of dollars. Tesla did cause blackouts with magnetic and ionospheric experiments that caused a stir (See the free full documentary: Tesla Master of Lightning) I disagree with your claim that there are only two or so documentaries based on SCIENCE that warn of the dangers of HAARP. The best documentary I have seen on the subject is available free on Youtube and is called "The Missing Secrets Of Nikola Tesla". Looking up "Ionospheric Warfare" or hundreds of YouTube accounts of strange "HAARP clouds" and other sky formations across the world are far too common to be coincidence. Tesla stopped work on HAARP in the 1940s. Later in life, he sought eastern philosophies for guidance and claimed if he had to choose a religion, it would be Buddhism for it was closest in explaining what he saw. It is often claimed that Tesla delibertely stopped working on HAARP because he knew the dangers. However, the US government funded this project in full. The freedom of information act has nw released de-classified documents documenting the deception. There are far more documentaries (and professionals. scientists, army, navy, military and government officials VERY knowledgeable on the subject). I agree with other commenters that this post is rubbish and doe not cite any scientific sources beyond the official website --- the one website being questioned in the first place. This review is garbage and does not deserve a footnote in Wikipedia. if you actually watched the documentaries you mentioned in this article, perhaps you’d be haarping to a different tune … as someone who collects pro audio gear from the soviet era, I can tell you that Tesla mics sound and are far better than mics that sell in America for thousands of dollars. Tesla did cause blackouts with magnetic and ionospheric experiments that caused a stir (See the free full documentary: Tesla Master of Lightning)

I disagree with your claim that there are only two or so documentaries based on SCIENCE that warn of the dangers of HAARP.

The best documentary I have seen on the subject is available free on Youtube and is called “The Missing Secrets Of Nikola Tesla”. Looking up “Ionospheric Warfare” or hundreds of YouTube accounts of strange “HAARP clouds” and other sky formations across the world are far too common to be coincidence.

Tesla stopped work on HAARP in the 1940s. Later in life, he sought eastern philosophies for guidance and claimed if he had to choose a religion, it would be Buddhism for it was closest in explaining what he saw. It is often claimed that Tesla delibertely stopped working on HAARP because he knew the dangers. However, the US government funded this project in full. The freedom of information act has nw released de-classified documents documenting the deception.

There are far more documentaries (and professionals. scientists, army, navy, military and government officials VERY knowledgeable on the subject). I agree with other commenters that this post is rubbish and doe not cite any scientific sources beyond the official website — the one website being questioned in the first place.

This review is garbage and does not deserve a footnote in Wikipedia.

]]> By: wes11b10 http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-4927 wes11b10 Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:51:27 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-4927 Jesse Ventura was not visiting this facility as "Governor Jesse Ventura" but as the host of televison show. The HAARP facility is no more secure than a self-storage business. On Ventura's show that featured HAARP, he flew in a helicopter to within a half-mile of the facility. Try doing that over CIA Langley and see what happens to you (hint - AH-64s and/or F-16s arrive in minutes to escort you from the area or riddle you with depleted uranium and HE) - why is the airspace not restricted? Also, the ionosphere is not exactly a perfect reflector. Imagine a broken concave mirror over your head 100' in diameter in which the broken mirror pieces continually change, move or disappear entirely. Now, shine a flashlight up and attempt to focus a correspondingly bright spot across the room (hint again - you can't do it). How exactly are they focusing the beamwidth to target specific areas of the earth or someone's brain? Don't know? Yeah, me neither - I have not yet figured out how to bend the laws of physics (but when I do, all of you had better watch out, waa-ha-ha!!! :P) Jesse Ventura was not visiting this facility as “Governor Jesse Ventura” but as the host of televison show. The HAARP facility is no more secure than a self-storage business. On Ventura’s show that featured HAARP, he flew in a helicopter to within a half-mile of the facility. Try doing that over CIA Langley and see what happens to you (hint – AH-64s and/or F-16s arrive in minutes to escort you from the area or riddle you with depleted uranium and HE) – why is the airspace not restricted? Also, the ionosphere is not exactly a perfect reflector. Imagine a broken concave mirror over your head 100′ in diameter in which the broken mirror pieces continually change, move or disappear entirely. Now, shine a flashlight up and attempt to focus a correspondingly bright spot across the room (hint again – you can’t do it). How exactly are they focusing the beamwidth to target specific areas of the earth or someone’s brain? Don’t know? Yeah, me neither – I have not yet figured out how to bend the laws of physics (but when I do, all of you had better watch out, waa-ha-ha!!! :P)

]]> By: jonathan http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-3624 jonathan Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:06:13 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-3624 I meant to say, "I am surprised..." not "I am..." I meant to say, “I am surprised…” not “I am…”

]]> By: jonathan http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-3623 jonathan Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:04:55 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-3623 I surprised that nobody has mentioned the most glaring and obvious use of the HAARP project yet: the demolecularization of buildings 1,2 on September 11, 2001. (Everyone knows that controlled demolition was responsible for the demise of building 7 and not some death ray) The shear lack of material at ground zero coupled with the fact that the seven underground stories beneath buildings 1 and 2 didn't collapse at all, (where are the pancakes?) can only be explained by a high energy, directed weapon and manipulations of various fields as with the Hutchinson Effect. As for this article-it did little to foster my critical thinking abilities on this topic. It didn't provide any sources for me to check out other than those at the official website. It is a disappointment and is not indicative of adequate research or the scientific inquiry that I would expect from you guys. I surprised that nobody has mentioned the most glaring and obvious use of the HAARP project yet: the demolecularization of buildings 1,2 on September 11, 2001. (Everyone knows that controlled demolition was responsible for the demise of building 7 and not some death ray) The shear lack of material at ground zero coupled with the fact that the seven underground stories beneath buildings 1 and 2 didn’t collapse at all, (where are the pancakes?) can only be explained by a high energy, directed weapon and manipulations of various fields as with the Hutchinson Effect. As for this article-it did little to foster my critical thinking abilities on this topic. It didn’t provide any sources for me to check out other than those at the official website. It is a disappointment and is not indicative of adequate research or the scientific inquiry that I would expect from you guys.

]]> By: Evan http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-3302 Evan Sun, 24 Apr 2011 18:11:13 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-3302 The same thing happened to me, but Jesus told me that death is real and that he wasn't. Why would he do that? The same thing happened to me, but Jesus told me that death is real and that he wasn’t. Why would he do that?

]]> By: Evan http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-03-03/#comment-3301 Evan Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:57:16 +0000 http://www.skeptic.com/?p=3104#comment-3301 Persinger's work is not clinical research and it's dubious as to whether or not the effects are due to EM at all: Granqvist, P; Fredrikson, M; Unge, P; Hagenfeldt, A; Valind, S; Larhammar, D; Larsson, M (2005). Sensed presence and mystical experiences are predicted by suggestibility, not by the application of transcranial weak complex magnetic fields. Neuroscience Letters 379 (1): 1–6. That being said, transcranial magnetic stimulation has been shown to influence certain cognitive abilities, but it's a big leap to infer that because a stationary solenoid applied over the scalp continuously for relatively long periods of time have small inductive effects, that HAARP could be used for population control. If we're being exposed at all, it would be over moving subjects and over the entire brain rather than the targeted cortical areas of TMS studies. If there were any effect at all it would be completely unpredictable and therefore useless. I don't know about the animal stuff, species that actually have EM sense organs might be different. Persinger’s work is not clinical research and it’s dubious as to whether or not the effects are due to EM at all:

Granqvist, P; Fredrikson, M; Unge, P; Hagenfeldt, A; Valind, S; Larhammar, D; Larsson, M (2005). Sensed presence and mystical experiences are predicted by suggestibility, not by the application of transcranial weak complex magnetic fields. Neuroscience Letters 379 (1): 1–6.

That being said, transcranial magnetic stimulation has been shown to influence certain cognitive abilities, but it’s a big leap to infer that because a stationary solenoid applied over the scalp continuously for relatively long periods of time have small inductive effects, that HAARP could be used for population control. If we’re being exposed at all, it would be over moving subjects and over the entire brain rather than the targeted cortical areas of TMS studies. If there were any effect at all it would be completely unpredictable and therefore useless. I don’t know about the animal stuff, species that actually have EM sense organs might be different.

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