If you have seen the dreadful History Channel series on “Ancient Aliens,” in which any artifact whatsoever is twisted into “evidence” for visitation by extra-terrestrial intelligences in our ancient past, you’ve probably been wondering where the rebuttal is to all these claims. Well, thanks to the erstwhile efforts of skeptic and Christian Chris White, this video is a complete analysis that will give you all the ammo you need to respond to people who breathlessly proclaim that they saw this “documentary” on the History Channel that offers “proof” of alien visitation. You can say, “not so fast!” And then tell them what we actually know about ancient history and aliens (and the lack thereof). Video produced by Chris White.
This article was published on October 5, 2012.
I believe science AND religion have it correct. I think advanced beings came to Earth and “played god” and we evolved from that. Just as science “plays god” now. Early humans would see advanced beings as “gods”, and would therefore write of them as such. Has anyone considered that maybe Jesus was one of these beings?
By the way, I was raised Southern Baptist.
Let’s just sort out one thing if it hasn’t been mentioned, Chris White is the most disinformed, disinformant there is. I only had to watch one of his 45 min YouTube flicks to notice how he completely debunks himself. Anyone with the energy to research what he is saying, even while you are watching his videos, will see that he gets his information from his derrière. I don’t even want you to believe what I say, just do your research on what he says and you will see that his words are baseless and he is using Christianity for monetary gain only. So there’s no need for debate around whatever this guy makes or writes.
I think you are all aliens.
Yeah, out of the billions of galaxies out there who would stupidly think that are other intelligent civilizations like us that can develop out. We’re it! Better damn believe it, Suck azzezz! LOL. Listen to all the skeptics they maybe just telling you the truth. Hahahahaha!!!!
A person makes an excellent, perfectly SCIENTIFIC movie debunking some of the most ridiculous alien conspiracy theories out there, and all you people can do is attack him because he is a Christian? Then you proceed away from the topic and yet again attack Christians with your ignorant hate. You don’t believe my religion? Fine. Your choice. Your loss. Can we now discuss something we both enjoy and can agree with? I love science and digging into this stupid UFO crap which I don’t believe for a second. I love to talk about science, particularly space science, but every site I go to I get this same vicious, hateful anti-Christian crap spewed at me. Religion and science are not enemies. They can exist side-by-side without a problem. Science is all about the physical world we can see. Religion is all about the spiritual world we cant. Two entirely different and independent subjects. Just because you don’t believe there even is a spiritual world (and I feel for you), doesn’t give you the right to cast aspirations upon those who do. Doing so only proves you to be a closed-minded bigot.
I love it when skeptics claim that all the explosions described in the Mahabharata mean nothing because there are always explosions in battle. Yet of course there supposedly were no bombs, guns or gun powders back then so what are they referring to? Exploding spears and swords? I also love how they quibble and say the first time anyone ever reported a fly saucer was in the 50’s and it is a modern phenomenon. Again this was the first time anyone referred to a UFO as flying saucer. In reality people have reported them for centuries and just called them other things. Alexander called them flying “shields” because they didn’t have saucers back then and were warriors who used shields in battle. Further shields being metallic were probably a more accurate description. This report was also verified by two other generals on the opposite side of the battle in their diaries and this was three thousand years ago so hardly a “modern phenom.”
Skeptics are just as bad as die hard religious nuts. Real scientists have an open mind just like these guys on these history channel. The truth is for example the Romans had performed most of our modern medicine including surgery over two thousand years ago and we know this because they wrote it all down in books with illustrations. But skeptics just like these claimed just like now that it was pure fiction and as such refused to allow anyone to perform any of these procedures for hundreds and hundreds of years right up until the mid 1900’s. As a result millions of people died as a result of infection, and myriad other disease. Skeptics are a very dangerous and ignorant lot.
Debunking the AA theory is th same as debunking christianity with the exception is there is more evidence of alien life than the zero eidence of a divine being god. You can not use scripture as evidence it was written by man man lies…it is in his nature. Alien life has been found in meteors this is FACT!
I am simply going to comment on the issue of narrow thought.
A lot of tunnel-vision-like processing of facts and ideas is doing little good to achieve greater understanding here. The most useful comment I found in this entire comment list(which is ridiculously huge, but I read most of it) was the mention of theory being the main drive of the Ancient Aliens series. All of the explanations on that show have been, to the best of my understanding, under the pretense of multiple unified theories about early Earth and many of its mysteries we do not have concrete answers to.
In short, the series is one big chain of hypotheses that stand little chance of being proven or dis-proven by modern man absent the actual appearance of Aliens which could proceed to confirm or deny(but still not PROVE sound)the theories.
A Christian person could assume that I lack knowledge of God, and that knowledge would lead me to the understanding that the Earth was only so old…etc. I have shocking news: I fully consider myself to be a Christian. My attitude toward my own religion is that man was given intelligence to make sense of right and wrong(Example: when I first heard of the Ten Commandments, they made perfect sense to me, and I couldn’t believe people had to be TOLD this stuff). Now the scientists AND the Christians disagree with me, which means I’m making more progress than most. Yes, I believe in intelligent design, and I was raised Christian, so my brain is wired to receive God in that way. No I do NOT believe the Earth is 10,000 years old, nor do I believe with a certainty about 90% of what is in the Bible. Too many corrupt powers have had COMPLETE CONTROL of the distribution and proliferation of this text for it to be a reliable source of information. For the simple-minded(these people aren’t necessarily wrong by the way, just probably getting to the right solution via erroneous logic, which is fine as long as it always leads them right), a Bible is the perfect guide to life and history, and they need not know more. For those who MUST always look further, I believe God knew we would and seeks to guide us differently. This is why He would ever allow His book to be altered in any fashion. Some have the mental tools necessary to parse out what is right from what is just plain ridiculous, and some don’t. That’s fine to me.
Now I’m in hot water about my belief in Christ. Why ever can I believe some specific part of the Bible to the exclusion of all else(which isn’t entirely true either, but going into detail about that would put anyone to sleep/Rest assured, I’ve thought it through)? Who am I to make such decisions, being of mortal descent and incapable of divine understanding? Well, here is where I have to take a leap of faith and stand on unstable theoretical ground. My faith is rooted in the idea that science has unveiled one of the greatest mysteries of the physical world, quantum mechanics. Experiments(which I cannot produce the results or details of at the moment <– hate me for my laziness), have been done during the final moments of death that repeatedly and unfailingly showed a decrease in the weight of the dying vessel at exactly the point of death. Not all subjects exhaled a last breath, and bowel movements never left the weighing apparatus where acceptable results are concerned. If I combine this with what little understanding I have of quantum mechanics(not to mention the fact that some scientists have already published theories along this route) I get a physical soul which leaves at the moment of death (which is intangible, unobservable except at time of death in this case and indestructible). Owing to the phenomenon of quantum entanglement, such a soul could traverse the Heavens compelled perhaps by a superior being of infinite span that had in fact already bonded with that soul. This superior being would in essence keep the soul from hell (annihilation of its quantum state: Think scrambled eggs compared to whole eggs, except that the soul still perceives itself, and therefore would be experiencing the quantum equivalent to the most excruciating pain in the universe.), and provide a place for it in His house (a stellar vessel perhaps? who knows, I'm still working on this part).
Okay, so it's important to note that in my crazy (drug-and-alcohol-free by the way) brain I have this wild theory that unifies God and science in a never-before-seen way, but that I have NO concrete evidence to support my theory. So what, it is just a theory, and I have faith in God enough to believe this theory to be close to the truth. I'm not blaspheming as far as I'm concerned, because I think that accusation was used by the church to exert its will on a populace, and I am not of its populace nor do i ever intend to be. I'm not some desperate human-existential-crisis lunatic that NEEDS everything to fit and makes sense. Or am I? You decide. After all, why shouldn't it fit and make sense? When it comes down to it, doesn't everyone believe that there IS A RIGHT ANSWER in the end?
All of the above is a demonstration of how one could come up with a theory that is only legitimized by its own existence in their mind. I was clearly not representing my theory as fact, but if more people comment on this page, it is HIGHLY likely that I will be demonized by one side or the other for stating my opinion, no matter how much thought I have put into it or effort I have put into expressing it as an idea rather than a doctrine.
TLDR (yes this truly does need a tldr, and this tldr might need one too…)
Don't have tunnel-vision when thinking about these things. I'm looking at Christians and atheists/agnostics equally here, and frankly I don't think either side is more likely than the others to jump to bad and poorly backed-up conclusions. Who's facts are the most factual, after all? What determines a fact from an opinion or idea? If you want to know more, google-search knowledge and read just the first few paragraphs of the wiki.
Yes, I said Wikipedia. Get over it. The statistical likelihood that the information on Wikipedia is false is dependent on topic, and it is a consensus among the scientific community that things like "What is knowledge" (disclaimer: I didn't fact check this, so do my dirty work for me, or just agree to disagree) are answered on that very wiki page from text right out of scholarly articles and books, and in many cases verbatim. Also, they have sources, and their sources have sources…etc Ad-Infinitum.
I have no expectations of what anyone will get out of what I wrote. I just got bored and put in my two cents. If you DO get anything out of this, I hope its valuable and gives you pause to think a little more about us, God and science, together.
To all the people out there that cant handle any new ideas or concepts people are offering. Then yes our world is flat and the sun spins around us, so go back to sleeping under your rock. These scientist are making a show for expanding ideas of our ancient past an presenting it as such. Hardly ever do they present Anything as fact, only as therory. So please expand your mind and pick up a book.
This show is giving questions, Not answers. “Ancient aliens” is just giving ideas and theories to unexplained sections of our past. Most of these people are just unsatisfied with the answers that “holy “books are trying to force feed us. No one could live long enough to give us the 100% “bias” view on what happened. And I don’t trust humans enough with something as powerful as religion. FACE IT. Religion is one of the most corrupting powers our world knows. And we have vast proof of it.
“god didn’t get to be god by giving away money” – Hubert Farnsworth
Personaly I think history channel Gould come out with a show called “GOD therory” So we can slander their ideas and mock them for having an open mind. if my god is anything like religious people say, Personaly I don’t think that god deserves to be a diety, or hold power over anything.
Looks like YouTube has yanked the video because of a request from A & E. Fair Use? What’s that?
http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/
This is his site. The video and all supporting evidence is available there.
Hmm.. Makes me wonder. We humans have a very very broad sense of consciousness. Ever wonder why of all the books, only science books have a universal/common understanding? While other books, we have different interpretations? We all agree that gravity is the reason for the apple to fall and yet we dont agree on terms of faith, we refute each others faith and yet the beings we worship doesn’t even care to prove themselves real.
More specifically, their interpretation of the fall of Egypt.
It’s time for the AATs to tackle the Book of Exodus.
Zecharia Stichin is very creatively applying modern terminology to Sumerian. None of his translations are correct. Look up the Sumerian yourself.
5 words: The Battle of Los Angeles…nuff said
interesting documentry, is it harder to believe humanity has been given a helping hand by alien races in terms of technology, spirituality, and science. Or that a snake spoke to eve, moses spoke to a burning bush, jonah was swallowed by a whale for 3 days, a virgin gave birth to a son who would one day die on a cross then come back to life only to ascend into heaven? reason and logic vs faith … stranger than fiction.
Why do we constantly change the subject here? White’s show just points out the deficiensies of the AA (the serie) . Yes part of us might not be from this planet but plese try to explain it without resorting to bogus terms… mercury vortex??? BS and so on… and please have some respect for the ancient people , why do we think that we are so smart and they were so primitive. What an arrogance!
Don’t bother: a part of us is not from this planet. Chris White has the right to be more than sceptic but i think he’s wrong.
http://www.evawaseerst.be/ancientaliensdebunked.htm
Deanna Gassners’ thoughts of starting a pacifist type survival group are very plaudibe, sadly however, “Human Nature” being what it is, “Survival of the Fittest” will not always prevail. The Strongest, Most Powerful, not nescessarily the Fittest or the Most Intelligent” will.
In any cataclysm. violence will inevibaly emerge, in the regions affected. Fighting for control of Food and Resources, involving widespread looting and Killing until such time as Law and order can be re-established, if ever, depending on the amount of the World affected. Where mere Survival is the driving force, Morals come a very poor second place.
Survivors of a Cataclysm will be forced to choose between forming alliances with the Strongest Most Powerful groups who will most probably be fighting each other for control and falling in with its rules, or being left to starve at best or to be killed.
Though not being a defeatist per se and being experienced in Survival Techniches, in the event of any catclysm, I too, would preferthat me and my family die quickly than live in the unthinkable aftermath of a Society under Anarchy. We have seen all too recently, with Katrina and Hurricane Sandy aftermath how slowly “Government” reacts to even a localised catastrophy. It does not take much to envision just how incapable Government would be to react to a caraclysm of much larger prportions to those two incidents.
For all our Sakes, it woul dbe wonderful if a Suprreme Alien Force could manifest itself, before any cataclysm hits the Earth. as I doubt that the finacial, greed driven Society the world is in today could re-invent itself.
Sorry to go on, just my thoughts:–
I think they did a good job pointing out all the “Untrues” of AA. I watched all the ephisodes and liked the show, however every time i tryed to resurch a subjech all the facts presented in the show were eather misconseptions or untrues. I belive in the Ancient Alien concepts but this pseudo experts are so lame presenting it. They destroy all the credibility of the idea. That is why it is so easy for White to debunk them. I hope the next season of the showwill do a better job in checking their facts beofe presenting them and don’t rely on pseudo experts like Erich Von Daniken , Zakharia Sitchin and crowd.
You know there’s gold on asteroids so they could get gold there just saying. After whatever happened in Roswell technology went crazy. If we are as smart as we claim to be its up to us as individuals to decide if there are Aliens,the government is spending alot of OUR MONEY to hide nothing,I’m just saying. I’m 52 yrs old the end of the world has been coming since the beginning. For all you neat individuals who are preparing ur family for world devastating events why would you wsnt to be here for that really.Its just amazes me how gullible people can be. I’m starting my own “organization no guns looking to settle and be self sufficient,no degrading self respectful happy settlement.NICE
Science and Logic are still infants. Maybe we are not yet able to draw any authoritative or concrete claims on such Grand issues, and should openly and Respectfully acknowledge ALL differing opinions regarding the origins of our existence instead of trying desperately to prove each other wrong, when we may well be incapable of understanding such a massive issue at this time. It is the freedom of curiosity that drives us to illuminate the truth in the future.
Now, I watch AA, in fact, I’m watching it right now! I find some of their claims to be very emotionally charged and way left field, IMO because Giorgio Tsukalos and Erich Von Daniken are passionately trying very hard to preserve the austerity of an “Ancient Alien Theory” that explains ALL anomalous occurrences here on Earth (from Bigfoot to the DNA molecule) which turns many people off, and drives them into skepticism, but there are other claims I find very, very intriguing and worth keeping an open mind about.
One thing we Cannot ignore, are the megalithic structures that were built here in the past. The large churches of Ethiopia carved out of bedrock?, the Giza pyramid complex and Pyramid of the Sun complex sharing the same base? and both systems having 3 structures aligning in the same fashion as the 3 stars on Orion’s belt?, huge megalithic blocks in Puma Punku, Bolivia above the treeline and 60 miles away from quarry that seem to show evidence of machining?, the multi-ton Easter Island Moai?
Some of these feats deeply fascinated me WAY before this show was ever put on air, and science’s explanation of these feats (wooden rollers and rope) is sadly and almost childishly insufficient. AA’s theories alongside the oral traditions of the indigenous peoples of these regions point to “the heavens”, “star people”, or “gods”, who somehow assisted in the creation of these marvels with advanced technology. This is an AA theory I view with an open mind….because science has not given an adequate explanation!!
I do indeed have respect for other peoples beliefs Mindy, and enjoy hearing their theories. Being a Free Thinking Christian, of no particular denomination I am open to consideration of any concept of what is considered to be “The Supreme Being” and our possible origins.
I was not critiscing peoples beliefs, merely commenting on a Television Series which in my opinion, seems to be attempting to push so much loose theory and supposition, as suggestions that they are fact.
Perhaps I should clarify that I was not deriding anyone who believes in the subject covered by the program, merely that I felt the program was very poorly presented and did nothing add anythiing to what has already been churned over time and time again by numerous “Aithors”and therfore, would do nothng to convince an open minded person.
Thank you very much for clarifying Mickie.Most people would not have.I feel indebted though to let you know I had no hard feelings about your comments,as I feel that the Ancient Alien series can sometimes overindulge the imagination and push their limits as well.For example Ancient Astronaut theory has been around for decades and I have yet to hear anything about Bigfoot being a member of the extraterrestrial club.I actually was very grateful for your comments because they pointed out just exactly why the series can sometimes have the opposite effect of what they are trying to convey.It was a great opportunity to clarify and simplify misconceptions that the program itself has created.
It is not just the series that uses the “what if’s”it is the belief system itself,hence the word theories in the title Ancient Astronaut Theory.I understand completely if your views are different and I do not begrudge you them,however for myself in a world full of Santa Clauses,Easter bunnies and Tooth fairies I hit a period of time where belief in something bigger than myself became very difficult and the Astronaut theories made God a PHYSICAL being I could believe in again.I like to think of myself as extremely open minded and I would be the first to stand up for your rights to believe in what ever your beliefs are even if I do not hold the same ones simply because I feel we are all entitled to do so.I would ask that perhaps you might have the same respect for those who believe in the Astronaut Theories.It does not make us unintelligent just diverse.
Whilst watching ths series I was constantly wearied by the same old jargon, taking tings out of context and oft repeted:- “Could it be?” “Perhaps this was”. “As some Ancient Astronaut Theorists believe”. “Is there Perhaps?”. “Is it Really Possble – as some Ancient Astronaut Theorists Believe”.
There were too many very short clips of “Experts” aparrently saying things that seem to conveniently support what is being presented as “fact, and not enough Experts elucidating on what was being put forward. Too many “What if’s” and Not enough Facts for this series to be remotely believeable, by anyone with even an iotoa of open mindedness.
I find it fascinating that Christians fear whatever does not fit into the bubble they have been conditioned to call reality. This documentarian took a lot of time to scream “no no no” while missing the entire overarching point of the show: these are theories. Perhaps a word he should look up. He did not miss the opportunity to use the History channels success in an attempt to discredit theoretical possibilities towards his own agenda… Leading the simple minded to his own cool aid stand?
New and popular, brain-wash idea of ancient alien theoris…. recent hollywood films and media want U to consume this ideotic concept…
And u idiots eat it up lake its realy true…. hahahahahahahaha
Aliens realy realy realyyyyy????
On a different note I think you are all intelligent and I appreciate your diverse opinions.However insulting someones intelligence or belief system or systems does not make you more intelligent it just makes you mean.
I do not understand why everyone becomes so angry and verbally abusive about this topic.Does not the idea of a extraterrestrial God provide more then enough proof for both the religious and scientific communities?Not to mention everyone in between? As for the idea that it is impossible for there to be intelligent life on other planets other than Earth is not in itself unintelligent but kind of narrow minded.I am not a scholar but some times I think we try to look at things from a intellectual point to often and forget to simplify.Some of our biggest leaps forward as a species have come from simplifying.As simple as possible we live in a great big universe guys not just a galaxy,and just within our own milkyway galaxy there are numerous star formations that we do not have the technology to reach or observe.Would not a being as advanced as God be able to break all barriers that we are unable.Why does it matter so very much if God is material or a spirit all that should matter is the message that he is real.I understand this topic makes some people angry but I truly believe we are all saying the same thing only in different ways.
I think you guys are being influenced by ancient alien technology that was left on this planet in order to keep ancient alien theorists from discovering all of their secrets. You’re pawns being used to stifle the truth. I mean, what else could it be?!
Why do you want to keep the truth from coming out? Ask yourselves that. Then look around you and see if there are any objects, perhaps some alien technology, which might be exerting some influence on you.
Do you have artifacts in your homes? Do you have reproductions of artifacts that could be so accurate they are channeling alien energy?
I find it incredible that we humans cannot duplicate the technology of the ancients. We appear to be evolving in reverse. Oh yeah, and Jesus DIED!
People, The purpose of this film is in it’s title. It is not to prove or disprove the existence of aliens or gods.
FBI Approved. Says it all really
That’s… a copyright warning…
History is developing other show based on the same fringe groups the “Ancient Aliens” associate with. they’re called “The Government Bugged my Brain”, “Closet Monsters”, and “Schizo-Bamaz
I’m really looking forward to “Bush’s Death Camps”, “Lizard People” and “Obama’s Muslim Agenda”.
History is developing other sow based on the same fringe groups the “Ancient Aliens” associate with. they’re called “The Government Bugged my Brain”, “Closet Monsters”, and “Schizo-Bamaz”
Get real…. no God exist.
No proof one does. Just the made up bible book.
I’ll throw all you loons a bone…
There is a reasonably good chance we’re all in a simulation. Imagine a very basic simulation, but a simulation that self evolves over time. Throw in several thousand billion years and voila… Pacman becomes Halo: Combat Evolved!
It’s reasonable to consider this theory above all else. In fact, odds are we’re a simulation within a simulation within a… and so on and so forth… ‘turtles all the way down, brah’.
Of course, the human mind is such that it will always seek an origin story, a beginning, a starting point. But reality may not confirm to the needs of your ape brain. When you throw a beardy jesus man into the equation, or any god for that matter, you have still failed to answer your own question… ‘Who created God?’.
God is conceivable only as an END POINT of evolution. That is, a race evolves to the point where it creates technology so powerful and incredible that it cannot be distinguished from a God. However, it to will always have a god — the creator. Taking this onboard, it is possible their are millions of so called ‘gods’ roaming the universe… probably running the simulations of the simulations of the simulations. It’s also quite possible these advanced machines can time travel, and may of seeded life years in the past by way of exploiting a paradox. If time travel is possible, there is no longer a beginning or end to anything. It’ all relative to your position in time, and thus the answer to everything, may well be contained within a paradox — life from the future went back and seeded life in the past.
As whacked out as all of this sounds, it’s infinitely more probable than any of the shit you loony religious people waffle on about.
Oh-ho, would you look at this!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/12/12/physicists-universe-simulation-test-university-of-washington-matrix_n_2282745.html?just_reloaded=1
It’s why there’s a maximum speed, a simple gravitational arrangement, etc. :D . Maybe that’s the Nephilim! God like characters who got banned early on!
Hilarious… let me spell it out to you so you’d don’t make this mistake again: Anyone who believes in man made religions such as Christianity, and all that that entails, simply has no credibility in the field of sceptical research and should be dismissed immediately from any and all intelligent discourse. For ‘Chris’. this is not about discrediting Ancient Aliens – the show does that itself well enough! This about poor little Christian boy feeling slighted because a TV show swapped his stupid beliefs for some other stupid beliefs and now he must get even!
It goes without saying that on a scale of odds, ‘God made it all’ would be in the category labelled ‘the very last theories to reach for, when all else fails’. The idea that aliens exist is practically a given, of course they do! Look up, big, isn’t it?
I cannot get it through my head how a Christian actually has the audacity to attempt to debunk Ancient Aliens. It’s wrong on so many levels, and if ‘Chris’ doesn’t see it, I’d go so far as to say he’s way more deluded than the Ancient Alien talking heads. Hands down. What a clown you are.
more absurd than “all powerful god did it” …
1 big bang = spontaneous generation = unscientific faith based belief
2 abiogenesis = life from non life = spontaneous generation = unscientific faith based belief
3 aliens created man… who created aliens? (still didn’t explain origins)
4 drake equation = size equals proof …. unscientific
oh. ya I’m AGNOSTIC.
so save your “lame anti christian remarks” for someone else.
search for “the real zietgeist challenge debunked”
search for “how 2012 enlightenment will lead to genocide”
search for “my rant on the truth movement”
nah, I think not. I have paint to watch drying, if I get that desperate. But you should…
search for ‘reality, that place surrounding you all the time’
search for ‘great christmas recipes 2012’
search for ‘your head, which you ought to find shoved up your arse’
and finally, do not search for ‘jesus’, because he didn’t actually exist.
Whoever you are dude, you are deeply confused, and horribly contradicted. I’m not going to listen to you trying to prove negatives… hey, there is a teapot orbiting the sun with my name on it. What do you mean you don’t believe it??? Prove it isn’t there!!! haha… cretin
The Big Bang is not “spontaneous generation”. You’re equating ideas from physics, biology, and numerous other fields. They’re not the same thing, and it’d take an introductory science course or a Wikipedia review to know why.
You should search the meaning of these two following words. Agnostic and Athiest. You might find that you are an Athiest. The difference may seem small, but atheism and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews. To claim there is no point in trying to prove or disprove God’s existence (as many philosophers have done) is to acknowledge the limits of human perception. To take the bold stance that there definitely is no god (as a few philosophers have done) implies that human perception is not so limited and that we can make such claims about the universe. These positions (as well as the position that God does exist) give rise to fundamentally disparate philosophies.
Being religious doesn’t disqualify you from being rational. Being irrational does. Unfortunately, religious ideas make many people irrational, but those ideas need to be rejected, not religion per se.
Of course you’d pick aliens before Gods, it makes sense.
you sure wasted a lot of time and money trying to through in your own misinformation……..
misinformation? please elaborate ……
oh ya , you’r an “intolerant know it all athiest/evolutionist” and so you hate christians.
ok . I get it.
in fact i could not finish this movie. boring………
your mind is closed. f you. that is all. you suck.
I am very fascinated by this discussion. The whole debate over aliens versus God is very interesting. My question to everyone here is; why does it have to be one or the other? Why even limit it to these two competing ideas? It is quite possible that a number of factors will ultimately be needed to explain the amazing feats of the ancient world.
I am a huge fan of Ancient Aliens. I find it very entertaining, especially the enthusiasm of commentators like Giorgio. However, other than these passionate personalities, anyone who buys into all of these theories is quite out of reason. They really lost it when talking about dinosaurs and Bigfoot…WTF was that? I think it’s called selling a chicken an egg or something like that. Wait, selling ice to an Eskimo, that’s it. The point is, if you bought it you are a sucker.
Whether you believe all, some, or none of the arguments and claims made in AA regarding actual ancient aliens, there is no denying that fact that the show does a great job at bringing to light the achievements of the ancient world and the lack of viable theological, scientific and archeological explanation for many of them. How were these things achieved? It is a great mystery that I find very compelling.
Many so called “mainstream” explanations are as plausible or laughable as the AA theories. We simply don’t know in many cases.
Two more points here. A concept in AA that really grasped me is the “big bang of the brain.” Not a new idea to me, but quite fascinating. I am a believer in evolution. To throw out evolution as a real and proven process of the natural world is, in my opinion, beyond the pale. It’s a process that can be seen happening right before our eyes, as with the rapid adaptions of viruses and such. How can that be denied? I don’t get it. That said, I don’t not think evolution can explain the rapid explosion in brain size in humans. Something happened. The great mystery is what? God? Aliens? Could be either, or something else, but I can’t see how the natural process explains it.
The second and final point is this – “God” is, by definition is an alien, not of this world. So, in a way, the “God versus aliens” divide is rather narrow.
Great thread!
Oh, I lied, one more thing. Please use proper spelling and grammar if you are going to make an argument in the public domain!
Ok, before anyone catches me, I made my own typo! It should be noted, this is only a typo, not spelling or grammar, lol. It should read, “That said, I DO NOT think evolution can explain the rapid explosion in brain size in humans.”
Wow! Amazing what comments come out of the woodwork when discussing reactions to a rebuttal of an Ancient Aliens doco series! ;-)
I consider myself “somewhat” of a skeptic, but hopefully one who also has an open mind to new, radical discoveries. Like Chris (the rebuttal film guy) I’ve previously been intrigued by the ancient aliens thesis – albeit regarding it as “a darn good yarn” (like The da Vinci Code), more than an entirely credible science-based theory. No, I don’t share Chris’ views on angels. I probably also don’t agree with Heiser’s religious beliefs. Yes, I agree it was a bit sneaky – and counter-productive – to throw in the stuff about Nephilim towards the end. And yes, I agree it shows his own bias. That said, at least he phrased it as: “It seems something weird is going on that there are these similarities throughout many ancient cultures.” Whereas AA said things like “The only logical conclusion is that blah-blah-blah-aliens-blah-blah-blah…”
I liked Pat’s description of “context bound skeptism.” I don’t think it was overwhelmingly Christian-biased. As someone who has no Christian beliefs (at least as far as a literal interpretation of the Bible is concerned, nor a belief in a Supernatural being) I felt that 95% of his counter-arguments drew from “mainstream” studies of archaeology, history and so on; not from some conservative Christian worldview.
I thought it was a sad indictment on the (alleged) “History” channel that it presented such ludicrous pseudo-science as fact. And as a film-maker myself, the idea proposed above that White is cynically making money/cashing in on the AA series is ludicrous. The film’s online for free for crying out loud! It’s AA that’s cashing in on people’s naivety and gullibility. And they’re a “mainstream” media enterprise who ought to know better. (And for those above who said “I watched the AA series and loved it” I challenge you to watch White’s doco, too. Yes, it’s long, but I think he does an excellent job of deconstructing many of the central claims made by the series.)
Finally, I thought it odd that some on this forum faulted White for stopping short of entirely ruling out the possibility that aliens – ancient or otherwise – exist. I think he strongly implied he didn’t see any evidence. But at the end isn’t that what any good skeptic should do? For me the most appropriate response to aliens is: Maybe they exist; maybe they don’t. Show me the evidence. I’m not a big UFO guy. Maybe there’s solid evidence that really CAN’T be explained away (though I strongly suspect 95% of it CAN be…) All White was saying (until he got to the angel bit, I know…) was: AA is doing a pretty sh*t job of proving its case. And I happen to agree with him on THAT point 100%
THERE WAS A REBUTTAL BY PHILLIP COPPENS. Ancient aliens if at worst was to create a debate. For things to be brought out into discussion. Not to prove or disprove anything or anyone. This is a bash video with overwhelming christian views. I feel like I’ve just been preached to. thanks. Not an atheist btw.
AA is one of the best shows USA has ever produced.I am an aussie & my wife turned born again christian in 2004 & left me.Since then I have read & watched everything to do with religion,history & thru this has finally led me to crop circles,Govt secrets & finally aliens. The evidence is everywhere if u truly look & keep an open mind.Dozens of your own police,military,pilots, politicions & public figures with nothing to gain & everything to lose(ridicule /own life) have stated ,a lot with evidence,that something is going on! Have spent many hours & sleepless nights trying to find answers myself & now think I have finally found a person who seems to have all the answers,reasons & reinforces his claims with current scientific evidence. BEWARE-This website is truly terrifying but the only one that makes SENSE! If you are gunna go there to “Debunk or ridicule” from the outset -fine(thats your problem) But if u too are wondering WHY ? WHATS HAPPENING?WHERES IT GOING? & need logical answers for the meaning of life & World changing events-“Seek & thou shall find” P.S. Wish had found earlier!WARNING -MESSAGE IS LIFE-CHANGING!!!!!!!!!!! Go to Pane Andov 2012 -before it gets shut down!
Really, in the end you watching this and believing everything he says, makes you just as much a ”sheeple” as the conspiracy theorists listening to Ancient Aliens.
You just believe what he says? Get involved, do your own research, make your own outcomes and decisions.
I really liked your video :)
But Nephelim comes from the hebrew root ” nephal ” which means the fallen or to fall
The septuagant translated the word by ” Gigas ” which also means fallen
Good work overall…
Do you think Darwin would have had the same conclusion if he would of known about ” DNA ” ??????
food for thought…
Nephilim comes from the Greek Nephos which means cloudy. Lim in Sumerian means people. Gigas is Celtic for giant and was used by Phrygians, Pelasgians and Greeks as a word for giant. Hittite, Minoan, Greek, Pelasgian, Phrygian and most likely Egyptians all spoke a similar language; Celtic. The Celtic people or Aryans came from Sumeria, moved on to Anatolia, Phrygia and then to Greece and Europe. Nephilim is a name for white giants.
Pat, you are right, but if you want to maintain credibility among skeptics, you need to do better.
skeptics = closed minded intolerant athiest :)
skeptics = “faith based evolutionists”
A Christian debunking things on Skeptic.com? You must be joking!?
another member of the “cult of athiests” … so sad.
can’t you see your entire media propaganda is to make you “hate chrisitans” ?
search for “how 2012 enlightenment will lead to genocide”
search for “the REAL zietgiest challenge debunked”
search for “my rant on the truth movment”
search for “the pop culture pastor”
ps. you are a product of your indoctrination and media propaganda. wake up
oh ya . “peace, love and tolerance to all (except christians)…. :)
Ok first just want to say i not some smart person who thinks i have everything figured out, but i will say this no one knows the true answers nor the true questions that should be asked.From what i,ve learned and seen in my life religion is a shame(wages war against ppl who don’t believe in there beliefs,preachers ask for donations to keep there church going when they only use it to benefit themselves and yes they been doing it for thousands of years and the way they get on tv and sell ppl water and say its been blessed by divine touch lol like god gave them divine power to heal ppl) When you look up into the sky and see all them stars that are suns and around them are planets right?So how can you say that there is no such things as aliens,there are millions upon millions of stars maybe even billions,so if there is that many stars then just imagine how many planets there are with intelligent life on them and whats to say that intelligent life evolve before us.The universe is billions of years old but when can only date back to what 300 million(that is a theory)but if it’s true other intelligent life forms could be so advance they could have been the creators of us thats what the AA series is trying to tell and you don’t have to believe it and if they did make money off the series that means that alot of ppl like the subject.Damn this subject pisses me off because the answers are not clear but one is clear that religion is the divider of mankind and to spit that utter nonsense to future generations causes a chain reaction that spins in circles.Look at it this way if everyone taught there kids that the future of the human race was to study Science,Technology,and Human behavior and knock out War,Religion,and all others things that puts us down the path that divide us then life on earth would be a better place to live on.But like i said im not a very smart person and many will think im dumb for posting this but my lack of intelligence just proofs my point instead of being able to learn stuff that could have lead to me being able make my case a little clearer, i grew up learning the nonsense of religion and how god is the person i should devote my life to,when i should have being taught more reliable info that could have more meaning to it.Whatever im done ranting about nonesense
i think you’re genius. religion is one of the major cause of early conquering of nations like the romans. now, religion became a business and being a preacher or a priest became a profession (i mean a paid one). i was kicked out from the church by saying this. anyway, we all have belief and respect is one of the best ways to peace. if i don’t believe in god, sorry for the believers, but i believe in intelligent life form from other planets (of which we call aliens), and i believe they are everywhere in the universe. simple as it is, considering the size of our sun as a medium size of a star with planets surrounding in it already, how much more with other same size or bigger ones? i already saw few videos of the AA series and most of the time, they make sense because they have evidence especially in the Architecture side where they question mostly the construction of the pyramid and other megalithic structures such accurateness and unbelievable size of construction materials. all i have are questions and i resort to the answer that ancients are really intelligent and they had helped from other beings not from earth.
By the way you write, you ARE smart. Sometimes I find interesting subjects and people in this site, and I think it´s great to debunk things that are obviously ridiculous, hoaxes, fakes, scams, I´m all for it, but not just debunking for the sake of debunking, which is all that is done here. Debunk, debunk, debunk, look around, find things to debunk, the question is debunking, love debunking, it´s a hobby!! Anything anyone says that implies this is more than a lonely planet in the whole universe, that there is intelligent life in the infinite universe, that there is technology that is more advanced than ours, that there are other beings that could be so advanced they could be visiting-studying us, that they could have intervened in our evolution, like we would do should we find a planet with a primitive form of life… Terrible fact, there is nothing but one planet, one race, one being that lives and dies and has no extraordinary capabilities that go beyond the normal use of the mind and the brute force. Anything that steps out of the box, is debunked. It must be very sad, living inside the box.
“erstwhile” efforts ??
I think it does have a place on this site. Context bound skepticism is still a form of skepticism, and should be applauded. He does a fine job of taking down the claims in the series with acceptable evidence regardless of you own place on the faith spectrum
In particular I am glad he is presenting Michael Heiser’s ideas. Heiser did an excellent and under-seen presentation “How Not to UseAncient Texts”which is wonderful despite my disagreements with Heiser’s own beliefs.
As does Pat Brady. it is disappointing to note that such (in the main) as well researched a documentary as this is, it has such a clear and obvious ‘agenda’ as to make it almost worthless in my view. This is one person’s view of a set of beliefs held by a misguided bunch of so-called atheists which just happens not to coincide with his own set of equally preposterous beliefs; belief in a ‘saviour of mankind’, or even a God is just as ludicrous as a belief in alien visitation. In fact, alien visitation may even be less ludicrous! The film is not skeptical, merely partisan and perhaps has no place on skeptics.com.
you “skeptics” have really bought into your own “faith based religion” of “evolutionary, athiestic, relativism” , and have succumb to the “cult” mentality of “us vs them” .
so sad.
even to the point of “intolerance towards christians” …
funny cus this is exactly what the “illuminati” want of you . and why you have so much propaganda in your media.
search for “the pop culture pastor” for more info.
also search for “how 2012 enlightenment will lead to genocide”
and “my rant on the truth movement”
So three hours worth of debunking and good historical information isn’t okay because at the end he says that there MAY be some truth to Biblical myths (NOT literal truth but some inspiration)? Boy, I sure do love the atmosphere of intellectual tolerance!
I liked the AA series because it asked some questions about plain sight objects and artefacts that we can’t yet fully explain. Sure, they wanted to make it all about aliens being the answer to everything, but it has brought my attention to more instances that fall into that unexplained category than I had hitherto been aware of, which I am grateful for.
What would you consider to be unexplainable from the series?
I first came across CHris White’s approach on a mostly excellent refutation of David Icke. I really love the level of clarity and pursuit of evidence he goes for, but I really wish he could see that his own cherished beliefs are on tremendously shaky grounds as well. In time perhaps his projects to refuse the assertions of contrary believers will eventually undo his own need to believe himself.
search for “the REAL ZEITGIEST challenge debunked”
The following is a direct quote from Lloyd Pye, one of the “researchers” on the project:
“To the best of my knowledge, the top lab in the world for what we need done is the Kureha Special Laboratory in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture. That’s about 200 kilometers northeast of Tokyo. What I need to determine is whether or not we can trust the results of any analysis we get from them. This was no different during the long struggle to find the proper DNA lab. Just because a lab exists, that doesn’t mean we can trust any result they give us. If one person working on the analysis has a private agenda that is strongly antithetical to what we’re trying to accomplish, we’re toast. Such tests are too easy to sabotage. We might as well not even try it.”
-Lloyd Pye
In other words, he will only believe the results if it agrees with their pre-determined conclusion. He provide Zero physical evidence to support his claim.
Evolution has an abundance of physical evidence in numerous different fields of study.
Things are not Black and White as you are suggesting, There is a level of uncertainty to every observation we make. This is why there is no such thing as science-fact. The truth also evolves, based on the current knowledge at the time. The theory of gravity started with a wide range of myths about the source of what glued us to the earth. Then Newton made the observation that mass attracts mass, the more mass you have the stronger this attraction is. So (After being tested of course) the whole theory of gravity changed. But Then Einstein came along and found that Mass creates an impression in space and time. So Gravity took on another meaning again. Know we have the Large Hadron Collider looking into the source of gravity, which will probably change our understanding once again on The Theory of Gravity. Now I would have thought the gravity was a fact. Can you see that science cannot be black and white. It is not a case of Gravity being true or false.
If you really want the truth you need to also be comfortable with uncertainty. This is how you will find the truth you are looking for.
But number one IT MUST BE REPRODUCIBLE AND TESTABLE if it is to go from Science Fiction to a strong “Theory of Science”.
To base your belief system on information provided by a single person with no specialised training will not provide you with the truth you are looking for.
I saw the documentary and Chris did an excellent job. I have also watched the series AA and appreciated them bringing different subjects or ideas to my attention. I have long been interested in archeology and solving mysteries and obviously our origin is one of the great ones.
AA does make many assumptions based on their belief that we descended from aliens and to do so, they are claiming we did not come from evolution. One question they ask is how cultures around the world could have thought to build pyramids, where did they get this similar idea from? It must have come from aliens right? How else could they all have similar ideas? Well a possibility is that a culture who wanted to erect a tall structure, could have simply copied the tallest thing they have seen….mountains. It is reasonable that pyramids are man made buildings based on the stability and design they observed from mountains.
Evolution is a dieing theory as it has been disproved on a scientific basis. Watch the video by Lloyd Pye, its two hours long, but its is very interesting. He evaluates evolutionists own evidence, and as someone who is only interested in what is true, the conclusion in inescapable: We did not evolve from chimpanzees. His evidence is clear, well spoken and easy to understand. He sites his sources so you can evaluate for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE
Even if we did come from an alien race, it still does not answer where we came from, just how we arrived at earth. It is understandable that mankind has been trying to take god out of the equation. After all if god is real what would that mean for us? We would be accountable and not in control of our lives or destiny, to have to bow down and worship another entity, makes many people angry, so pretend he doesn’t exist and that fixes the problem.
The problem with a fact is…it either IS or ISN’T true. So we either came from aliens or we didn’t. God either created the world or he didn’t. Evolutions is either true or it isn’t. You get the idea. So here is the main point I wish people to take away from my blurb: Seeking truth should be what matters
Thats it. So many of those that posted here and in other places, get offended and upset, calling the other person stupid or an idiot. Even in a reply from one of the main people from AA to Chris Whites film “Ancient Aliens debunked”, often refers to him as being stupid repeatedly. In my opinion, when others resort to name calling is due to their frustration, from a weak part of their argument being exposed, or the oppositions raising a point that they have no rebuttal for. Yet some who only cares about what is true would respond differently. They would take interest in what the other person said or the points that were raised, give validation and credit where it is due, and acknowledge when they were shown to be incorrect on this point or idea. That is where real learning begins, and instead of arguments you have discussions.
Has anyone ever thought out of the box to think that maybe time never starts or ends? So this whole idea of creation or “the world ending” goes out the window. We have this idea that is taught to us from a young age that everything has a begining and ending. And we base all our theories and ideas on this. But what if that’s not the case?
I personally agree that the theory that we evolved from monkeys is not true but that does not necessarily mean evolution is a lie. Which I think many people confuse. It is evident that species “evolve” over many years, but that doesn’t mean we evolved from monkeys.
When Ancient Aliens uses the idea that the human race was not intelligent back then to prove that it “must have been aliens” I think is stupid, BUT that does not necessarily mean that aliens were never present in our history. Maybe it would help people on this site to think about it from many angles. Not just your own. I don’t mean this in an offensive way at all. I am only a teenager still but I strongly believe we need to be more open with our understanding. Just because someone said something that maybe isn’t true doesnt mean that everything they say isn’t true.
Keep investigating and searching! I know I will but if I think I found an answer that I could be satisfied with. That doesn’t mean that if someone else comes along and opens my mind to another idea that goes against what I thought was the answer that I would not listen! :)
Open your mind everyone! And be caring! We all on this planet together!
A fact is the only physical appendage to be evolving on the human body is the thumb proves that evolution does in fact occur.
As the first philosophical argument of psychology of are we born it or made it proven to be the wrong questions to ask. The understanding that both of these forces are in fact true has greatly aided us on our search for what is the right questions come from a body of better understanding.
Science is not a yes or no field of human study. Science is the measurement and observation of cause and its effects. Philosophy is therefore not a science. But is very help full to put the measurement of cause and effect into context of importance and relevance.
Darwin’s theory of evolution never stated that we evolved from monkeys. That’s probably the biggest misconception regarding Darwin’s evolution…
Darwin’s theory was that humans and many of the other primates of today evolved from a common ancestor. This is a big difference. This ancestor was probably both more human than any primate on the planet today (maybe bigfoot? :-P). The fact that we started evolving from this ancestor a few million years ago is also very important.
A common issue with evolution that I hear is along the lines of “I simply can’t believe such a simple organisms like an ameba can evolve into something like a human because they are nothing alike” Time scale is everything here. Life has been evolving for over 2 billion years. Humans as they are today have been around for a few hundred thousand years at most. Recorded human history for about 5 or 6 thousand years… Added to this is that at certain points over this 2 billion plus years of evolving life there were periods of intense environmental pressures (ice ages, reduced breathable air, intense global warming, etc, due to things like meteors and natural disasters). These wiped out the majority of many species. The remainder were those that were fortunate enough to have the bear essential mutations so that they could adapt to their new environment (ie, in most extreme cases land animals moving to the sea, etc). As a result evolution, at least in appearance if not in process, was greatly accelerated.
Some things in the more recent evolution of humans (past couple hundred thousand years) seem hard to explain at first glance. Before this point, “humans” probably behaved largely like any other primate. It wasn’t until mutations in a couple of genes leading to much larger cerebral development (ASPM?) and ability to process and use language (FOXP2) that the modern human really got rolling.
So why did these specific mutations in early humans take place? Was it aliens? Direct divine intervention? I don’t know. But not necessarily. The process likely got underway when humans began to walk upright (bipedal). This freed their hands to use tools. Why did they begin to walk upright? Likely because they left jungle habitats for grasslands due to seeking food, etc. At first these tools were rocks or sticks used to bash the heads of prey. But gradually, slowly, this usage developed. Those with larger brains (only minimally larger at first) had a greater propensity to develop increasingly complex neural networks that any developmental psychologist or neuroscientist will tell you is required for just about all of the complex activities humans do and largely correspond to identifiable components like fine motor control, etc. Those that were able to use tools most effectively likely beat out the competition for mates… And keep in mind, these changes in brain size happened over tens of thousands of generations. To put into context, our entire civilized history since the ancient Sumerians has only been on the order of a few hundred generations.
I admittedly watch Ancient Aliens occasionally, but not for educational purposes, more for casual entertainment – like bad science fiction ;-P. Once in a while they come up with something interesting, but I don’t think it is reasonable to accept anything they claim at face value (especially since so much of what people have said on the show is easily discredited).
Finally, while to me, nothing about the evolution of life on earth is necessarily indicative of an Intelligent Design, alien or divine in origin, we have a long, long way to go before anyone can successfully refute either. The question of where did DNA come from, for example, is something we’re not even close to answering with any degree of certainty…
So whether you’re a biologist and think that something like DNA may be indicative of an Intelligent Design, or a quantum physicist who may think similarly about the Higgs field (in the sense that it is some ubiquitous energy or force that exists throughout the universe that governs the behavior of quantum particles) there is plenty of room left for mystery and awe.
Whatever the truth, people bickering back and forth about proof of God (or aliens, I suppose) or the lack thereof, at this stage in our collective understanding, is silly.
No one is denying that alien visitation is IMPOSSIBLE, though that pesky theory of relativity does get in the way. But there’s no EVIDENCE for it. It’s not impossible that the guy who takes your wallet just wanted to buy you a surprise gift, but one wouldn’t assume that. We make assumptions and proceed with life based off of evidence. If we want to make good decisions, that evidence should be just as good.
Hey JC… well said kid!! You have given a lesson to quite a few pedantic and aggressive elements here, who think they know it all, and will never accept any argument from someone who thinks differently, no matter how much sense it makes. “It´s a sign of intelligence to admit you´re wrong”. Man is arrogant and stubborn, his pride comes before anything else. Congratulations to the good mannered, respectful people in here. And JC… you are WISE. Don´t let anyone change you.
Don’t limit yourself to binary answers of yes or no. That’s what computers do and are you a computer or a human??? Do better.
Yeah, computers haven’t chosen to wage war or terminate themselves or rob others :D . If you look up at the sky, do you think, “The sky is cloudy and it is not cloudy” at the same time? No. Because most logic is binary, true-false. Many ideas can be true simultaneously: “Obama is the President of the United States” and “water freezes into ice” are both true and both don’t deny each other. But some ideas have to be false for others to be true.
Haters gunna hate. Non-believers will pay at the rapture! the Alien rapture!
Maybe someone can upload the Dr Wilder Smith series ‘ORIGINS
How the World Came to Be’ on YT? I watched this in the eighties on a dutch cristian channel.
Found the debunking helpful and funny too. I have seen some of that series.
Ancient Aliens is an insult to human achievement. Humans have always being clever and smart. To dismiss the achievements of our ancestors as being beyond them and the result of alien intervention is stupidity of the highest order.
It also speaks to a predilection on the part of our era to think itself superior to all that came before. No we are just as stupid as our ancestors.
AA proves the point.
All those pseudo experts lying through their teeth are pathetic, trading on the fact that few of us would have the time or inclination to check their facts.
As to creationists and evolutionists they seem to be flip sides of the same coin.
The disagreement occurs because we simply refuse in this instance to accept that the Creator of the Universe, and all in it, has the right to decide whatever that creator wishes. Whatever may be thought of Picasso, it is universally accepted that he does have the right to create his work and to set the parameters thereof. He does not care whether we understand or like his work and we do not have to but we never ever deny him the right to create what he wishes nor his right to do so.
It seems software was written to set up the universe and have it keep going. Within that software are lines of code – interactive and dynamic – that accounts for all aspects of organic and inorganic activity within that universe.
People spend their lives studying a few lines of code – the human body and how it functions or not – within that software; cosmology; all aspects of human behaviour;
At the end of the day it is folly to pretend that as created evolving beings who, despite all our cumulative efforts on the planet, are floundering around to find what amounts to superstitions disguised as science, answers to the age old questions of our origins.
We do know who we are and how we got here but it is too straightforward and more to the point, shows us to be dependent, helpless, weak, frail, scared – not all we have been cracked up to be- “masters of all we survey.
Hobbes is still correct – short nasty and brutish.
We are created beings. Whether we wish to accept that fact or not is irrelevant. If the Creator of the Universe or the King of Heaven as a pagan king called him, says this is my universe I can do with it as I please, who are the created cretins to challenge that right?
Reminds me of a story I once heard. After God created human beings, his adversary said that could hardly be called an achievement and to prove it he challenged him to come and see what he could do. So God shows up. When the adversary reaches down to scoop up some earth to show what he could do, God said sorry, get your own dirt.
This may explain in part Genesis 6 and why the flood was necessary.
No one has to accept that story and just as it is no skin off Picasso’s nose whether we accept his art or not, similarly with the Creator of the Universe.
It is still his and he can do with it as he wishes. Look at how fragile we are in the face of the lines of code that govern what we term “natural disasters”.
Despite our aeons upon the planet we are unable to manage hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, drought, winter, volcanoes.
Truth be told we human beings are a pathetic bunch; for evidence one only has to look at what passes for life on the planet – a handful enjoying their version of the good life at the expense of the many; greed is the order of the day and filthy lucre is king.
Stupidity masquerading as religion reigns supreme on the planet – wherever you look. Men shoot children who want to learn because the children were foolish enough not to be born male; people go out and kill other people in God’s name because they do not share their version of what constitutes life; or people are denied a cornucopia of rights simply because they were not smart enough to have had rich parents or black parents or white parents or asian parents. It is madness.
Meanwhile pseudo scientists are claiming aliens as forbears in the vain hope that they will come down and rescue us from ourselves.
It would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
chzgns, You are making this huge leap to the assumption that there is a creator with out providing a reason and then rapping it up in philosophical sounding jargon hoping no one will pick up on it.
Yes our ancestors did provide a foundation of knowledge but we have built on this knowledge and it cannot be denied that it is superior. Studies have also shown that IQ is also increasing. This does of course not exclude us from making poor decisions.
You are also jumping to the false conclusion that the natural process of our universe are in some way programs that require a creator. Just because you don’t yet understand how something works does not automatically mean god did it, it does however mean that we study further the mechanism behind it. Such as what is happening at Cern in the LHC.
You try to point out the things that we have not yet accomplished to try and portray science as being incompetent. But we have not been doing this for aeons as you claim. We are only knew at this and we still have a long way to go. This doesn’t mean we throw up our hands and say “no need to go on god did it”. If we did we would still be in that primitive environment you admire so much.
In this point you are trying to look at the failings of man, but if you truly look at this from your point of view, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, drought, winter, volcanoes are all flaws in the design of an earth that is supposedly designed exclusively for us. This is an observed notion.
If you really want to find the truth for the existence of a designer you only need to look at how poorly the human body is designed, how poorly our environment is designed for human life, and how insignificant we are in the design of the universe.
You also speak of people being killed in the name of religion. The only reason for this is the ambiguous writings contained in the bible that are supposedly written by an omnipotent being. This book is so flawed and contradictory this could never be the case.
Most importantly be aware of the flaws in human reasoning such as “Cognitive desinence” don’t ignore the physical evidence and replace it with illogical, convenient reasoning that allows you to continue to believe an inappropriate world belief.
Shane I was told I must go from the known to the unknown. I look around and notice that if we want something we have to make it. We do not have magical powers. I look at the universe and even though we know it has been around for billions of years the question that stumps me is why is the universe awash with hydrogen and helium? carbon and oxygen? what particular set of random configurations produced the Milky Way galaxy with the planet upon which we live?
I look around me and notice that Frank Gehry’s museum in Barcelona did not just happen all by itself. Or the Empire State building didn’t decide it wanted to be in NY and imbed itself in the rock and grow itself into the iconic building that it became. Nor did the advancements we see in computer science just up and happen. A lot of people had to sit down and think and plan and understand the basic laws that govern how you get stuff to work.
I do not think it is a sign of weakness to admit that we create our own ideas of a universe but think it absurd that the planet upon which we live and placed in a known universe that is supposed to be 14 billion light years across, merely happened of its own accord. That the gases and forces (dark energy, electromagnetic, gravity) merely happened of their own accord.
I admit that I am unable to understand why it is that we have no problem admitting that Frank Lloyd Wright is a great architect and built what he did but refuse to consider the possibility that the very laws and principles that make it possible for us to create our transient worlds were created by a being that is far superior to us.
We are made/created creatures. We do not think that Gehry’s buildings are greater than him. His mind conceived and built them and we acknowledge him.
I think we do have to admit that the world around us and the universe it inhabits is far superior to any building or anything that we can make. I mean we still do not understand why light travels at the rate at which it does.
We are learning more about this incredibly fabulous planet on which we live and the galaxies whirling around us but we can’t even tame the natural forces of this planet – earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis hurricanes etc.
Look at the elegance of water in all its iterations – snow (made up of unique flakes) hailstones, ice, vapour, dew. frost, mist, clouds. It is mind boggling just to think about it. How did water happen. Why did the molecules arrange themselves in the way they did. If clouds shared the molecular structure of cotton perhaps our jet planes could fly only on sunny days.
Our how the cold Antarctic currents drive hundreds of millions of sardines up the east African coast just in time to feed birds, whales, dolphins and humans.
Shane all I am saying is that we cannot on one hand admit that we have created the world/civilisation on this planet but find it difficult to admit that the larger universe in which that world/civilisation exist does not itself have a creator. Merely happened.
We are created/made therefore we cannot be greater than that which made and created us.
We are wired to know this on many different levels but we do not want to admit this.
The definition of intelligence I like the best is understanding what we don’t know by Albert Einstein.
You make a cathedral one block at a time to a plan of its physical design.
Every action has a reaction.
Mathematics has shown us that our universal environment can be tested and proven by maths. Maths can prove a theory and can also disprove a theory. Proven by a mathematical formulae which is regarded as one of the most important formulated in the last sixty years.
Theories and philosophies can thus be proven to be valid by maths. These tests of rationale validity show that many of the philosophies and theories to be right. Even if they directly contradict one another.
Speed of thought is faster than the speed of light.
The real discussion should be the very easy observation that humans do have an ability to shape their environment and this can be done in a positive way by humans with a greater appetite for understanding. Trial and error is a valid methodology. Mathematics even gives us an ability to model some of our trials thus avoiding the more costly errors.and very very simply until a higher being can demonstrate a increasing benefit to and for humans. We are better off served in relying our own capabilities. At best to improve our lot at worst to be able to challenge any being…….higher or alien is irrelevant. We just need to embrace the only constant in our universe. And that is change. And do our ability of shaping our environment…..justice. Thus doing our species justice.
The only certainty of not trying by us, will prove that we are unworthy of our own intelligence. Therefore we will never come close to fully understanding what we don’t know.
Play the ball not the man.
Not to get too carried away with ‘slogans’ the discussion should be about “so how do we positively shape our environment while ensuring not to many costly and foolish errors of judgement occur”
And as this discussion board is about the evidence of aliens or evidence of our past. It’s almost critical to understand where we have came from to answer the better questions. But are we from aliens of god is really only a mixture of semantics if both theories have elements of the truth. And therefore not the right question just a clumsy but enticing way to start a respectful discussion on what does it all mean. It means something cause I can feel it .
The smartest thing I’ve read on here.
We are capable of so much more as human beings.
It’s unfortunate that we are acting like viruses on this earth and killing everything around us.
Is it time for our maker (god or alien) to put us in line?
The speed of thought is demonstrably much slower than the speed of light.
wow…good points and good logic…lets take it a step further ok…what if we are the creation of one of GOD’s creation….what if life creates life…ho wait …thats called nature…
Clarence, thank you for the response. I still disagree, but you made your point very calmly, unlike my first post, and for that I commend you.
I have too disagree that the energy of the sun is an adequate driving force for the theory of evolution. It may be a force, but no intelligence is driving that force; making decisions.
I think we may have drastically different opinions on what order and disorder are, so I won’t comment on that, other than to say a sand dune is not an adequate example of disorder to order.
I did not mean to imply that small changes in physical appendages are contrary to the natural processes of biology, more like the idea that a species will evolve do only to its environment putting pressures onto it. how would an organism know to produce a new appendage that previously did not exist, sounds like intelligence to me. The very idea that an organism would change itself to survive exhibits intelligence.
I also do not know why you would say that thermodynamics are irrelevant to evolution, as evolution is directly related to biological organisms, warm-blooded at that, and heat is involved in most biological processes. And the theory of evolution still has no answer for the singularity of DNA, which is immaterial at the quantum level, information without material, like software. Software doesn’t just happen by chance.
Anyways, I respect your right to have a different opinion than myself, and not letting my short-fused first response to enkiduh rub you the wrong way. I know that this site is not filled with like-minded people of my beliefs, so I appreciate your kind response. this site is called “skeptic”, and I just happen to be a skeptic of evolution.
(p.s.-For those who think creationists just don’t get the idea of evolution, that’s not it. The concept is quite obvious, it has more to do with the philosophy and ideology than the process, and the fact that it is still just a theory!)
Mike, If I may I would like to direct you to http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html
This has many answers to some of the questions you may have.Enjoy.
Including this:The word theory, in the context of science, does not imply uncertainty. It means “a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena” (Barnhart 1948). In the case of the theory of evolution, the following are some of the phenomena involved. All are facts:
•Life appeared on earth more than two billion years ago;
•Life forms have changed and diversified over life’s history;
•Species are related via common descent from one or a few common ancestors;
•Natural selection is a significant factor affecting how species change.
Many other facts are explained by the theory of evolution as well.
2.The theory of evolution has proved itself in practice. It has useful applications in epidemiology, pest control, drug discovery, and other areas (Bull and Wichman 2001; Eisen and Wu 2002; Searls 2003).
3.Besides the theory, there is the fact of evolution, the observation that life has changed greatly over time. The fact of evolution was recognized even before Darwin’s theory. The theory of evolution explains the fact.
4.If “only a theory” were a real objection, creationists would also be issuing disclaimers complaining about the theory of gravity, atomic theory, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of limits (on which calculus is based). The theory of evolution is no less valid than any of these. Even the theory of gravity still receives serious challenges (Milgrom 2002). Yet the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is still a fact.
5.Creationism is neither theory nor fact; it is, at best, only an opinion. Since it explains nothing, it is scientifically useless.
Links:
Moran, Laurence. 1993. Evolution is a fact and a theory, http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
Isaak, Mark. 1995. Five major misconceptions about evolution, http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html
References:
1.Barnhart, Clarence L., ed. 1948. The American College Dictionary, New York: Random House.
2.Bull, J. J. and H. A. Wichman. 2001. Applied evolution. Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics 32: 183-217.
3.Eisen, J. A. and M. Wu. 2002. Phylogenetic analysis and gene functional predictions: Phylogenomics in action. Theoretical Population Biology 61: 481-487.
4.Milgrom, Mordehai. 2002. Does dark matter really exist? Scientific American 287(2) (Aug.): 42-52.
5.Searls, D. 2003. Pharmacophylogenomics: Genes, evolution and drug targets. Nature Reviews Drug Discovery 2: 613-623. http://www.nature.com/nature/view/030731.html
the “theory of gravity” can and has been “tested” and “reproduced” , the “faith based belief of evolution” has not been “tested” nor “reproduced” it is a “religious belief”
. just cus they “indoctrinated” you in “science class” does not make it “scientific” …
You sir would need to open your life to reality to understand how ignorant you sound, so assuming that will never happen I thought I would clue you in!
Evolution has been tested and reproduced. It has testable predictions which have been proven accurate. And we know on a microscopic level how evolution occurs: DNA. We’ve seen organisms go extinct (a very weird thing for religious people – why doesn’t God just recreate some of these organisms that die?) and we’ve seen organisms adapt to antibiotics.
But the fact is that there IS evidence for evolution, even if you don’t like it, and there’s none for God.
Mike let me see if I can answer you a little more directly.I will try to do it point by point , so here goes. (1)”I have too disagree that the energy of the sun is an adequate driving force for the theory of evolution. It may be a force, but no intelligence is driving that force; making decisions” The sun is not an adequqte force, it is one of many forces( gravity,climate,heat,cold,changing diet, etc.) are all driving forces behind it.Life is not a closed system
(2)”I did not mean to imply that small changes in physical appendages are contrary to the natural processes of biology, more like the idea that a species will evolve do only to its environment putting pressures onto it. how would an organism know to produce a new appendage that previously did not exist, sounds like intelligence to me. The very idea that an organism would change itself to survive exhibits intelligence” organisms do not do this, an organism may develop a trait that helps it survive , but it may also develop a trait that can cause its demise( example, sometimes a trait like albino shows up in an organism, when this happens in a jungle setting it makes the animal stand out more,which makes it more easily seen and more likely to be spotted by a predator and eaten, thus it is more likely this one will not survive and pass on the gene, however lets say its sibling is born with a darker coat, this allows it to hide better,making its life longer,and giving it more chances at survival and procreating, this trait will carry on.niether has a choice in the trait or gene that kicks in.It is more of a question of which mutation is better for survival.
My first reply in this note should explain the thermo question, and all I can say about the DNA question is that just because we can not explain it yet doesn`t mean it is automatically god.We have only been doing this for a small time compared to life which has us by a few billion years. I hope this was a little clear and helpful.
I would rather a scientific theory than blind faith. I can assume you believe the earth was created 5000 years ago. You use science when it’s convenient for you but shun it when it
doesn’t fit your mold. You can’t have it both ways. I respect the notion that you may believe in the supernatural but please keep this nonsense out of schools and away from my children.
your children are already pushed a “faith based religion of big bang theory and evolution” both are unscientific faith based religiouse beleifs.
aka
“life from non life” (abiogenesis) “spontaneous generation” (big bang)..
keep your “supernatural religious beliefs” from my children. and MY TAX DOLLARS.
seen that way life is a theory….
I think the doc was great, even though I’m not necessarily supportive of it, overall. He brings up some great points, especially for those of us how have no real knowledge of the subject. Much of what they say on Ancient Aliens is sensationalized and quite a stretch, but what isn’t a stretch in the revolutionary process of science. Name me a scientific “fact” and I’ll show you a past time that the idea was ridiculed. You think people believed germs existed right away? Hell no. Here’s my obscenely long review of the AA Debunked film if you want to read my whole antithesis to it.
http://illuminatiwatcher.com/?p=3903
come on folks, these debunker guys are trying to make a quick buck off of the popularity and success of Ancient Aliens. the series has been renewed for a 5th season. after watching this so called documentary, it is so bias in their Christian beliefs.
“come on folks, these debunker guys are trying to make a quick buck off of the popularity and success of Ancient Aliens.”
Oh? I wonder how many people have bought the series on DVD and Blu-Ray over the past few years. The people who make AA are laughing all the way to the bank over the popularity of the show, capitalizing on people’s gullibility. Yeah, talk about making quick bucks!
Both sides have proven to be wrong. In some part at least. if they both can be wrong, can they both be right? I think so.
A great logical fallacy. The only thing that’s been “proven wrong” in this video, arguably, is the Nephilim stuff at the end, and he makes very clear that he is making tentative guesses based on evidence. For God’s sakes, he just says “Something happened in the distant past”. Not exactly making stuff up.
Fact is, both sides can be wrong and one side can be more wrong, or completely wrong. In this case, the ancient astronaut theorists blatantly reject parsimony and add aliens for no additional predictive rigor. Every single prediction one could make from the theory is false. One would predict based off of the theory that aliens would have left behind easily-understood mathematical codes for future generations to decipher, or at least building materials like electronics, radioactive material, steel, titanium, diamond shards, etc. They didn’t. One would predict that the things that they built would have obvious utility for a technological civilization. They simply don’t. Then one examines their evidence and it’s based on lies, ignorance and a historical lack of knowledge that is frankly insulting. Doesn’t it raise ANY suspicion on your part that History Channel can only find the same twelve or so guys to say this bullshit?
it’s free MORON. NO MONEY HAS BEEN MADE ON THIS ANCIENT ALIENS DEBUNKED move. and THIS WAS DONE ON PURPOSE FOR MORONS LIKE YOU. who ASSUME money is the agenda. , but the agenda is waking up the “new age” disinformation . not money.
try again.
it’s free MORON. NO MONEY HAS BEEN MADE ON THIS ANCIENT ALIENS DEBUNKED move. and THIS WAS DONE ON PURPOSE FOR MORONS LIKE YOU. who ASSUME money is the agenda. , but the agenda is waking up the “new age” disinformation . not money.
try again.
let’s not mention your “anti christian” bias. to your “fallacious” claims of “monetary gain”
Dude, ur such a bitch. Not that I totally agree, the vast majority of this stuff I disagree with, but how is it any crazier than the crazy shit in the bible. Shouldn’t talk shit on someone just because u disagree with them especially when the shit u believe is in no way any less crazy than the shit ur talkin. U probably a crazy republican bible thumping fag, the type of people who are ruining the country!
{notjam820 says:
HIS WAS DONE ON PURPOSE FOR MORONS LIKE YOU. who ASSUME money is the agenda. , but the agenda is waking up the “new age” disinformation . not money.
try again.
let’s not mention your “anti christian” bias. to your “fallacious” claims of “monetary gain”]
Just as long as you are aware you (like the movie) have an agenda and aren’t confused and think you are unbiased, open minded and rational.
and wasn’t it Jesus who said “Blessed are the MORONS?” I’m sure you didn’t come up with a nice Christian sentiment all by yourself.
Great Documentary!!!
Some of the commentators on this site apparently did not understand the point that the film was making. Chris never claimed to be a secular evolutionary materialist who was refuting all religious and spiritual ideas. Simply, that most of the “evidence” provided was misleading or down right untruthful. His intention was not to attack religious texts, only to be honest as to what they really say. If you want a documentary that has a secular humanist bias do your own documentary.
(p.s.- enkiduh, since you think a high-school level of biology discredits the biblical accounts, why don’t you rationalize to me how the “natural process of evolution” goes against the “natural laws of thermodynamics”, the law of entropy; I guess the natural process of evolution is to swim against the stream of all other biological organisms in the universe; wow, that doesn’t require a failure of logic. All biological organisms are in a state of decay and yet some how, without an intelligent driving force, we are supposedly evolving; and I’m considered the idiot for not believing it. You stick with your hypocritical “religion of evolution” and I’ll stick with mine.)
Here you go Mike! An answer for your thermodynamics question.This shows more a misconception about thermodynamics than about evolution. The second law of thermodynamics says, “No process is possible in which the sole result is the transfer of energy from a cooler to a hotter body.” [Atkins, 1984, The Second Law, pg. 25] Now you may be scratching your head wondering what this has to do with evolution. The confusion arises when the 2nd law is phrased in another equivalent way, “The entropy of a closed system cannot decrease.” Entropy is an indication of unusable energy and often (but not always!) corresponds to intuitive notions of disorder or randomness. Creationists thus misinterpret the 2nd law to say that things invariably progress from order to disorder.
However, they neglect the fact that life is not a closed system. The sun provides more than enough energy to drive things. If a mature tomato plant can have more usable energy than the seed it grew from, why should anyone expect that the next generation of tomatoes can’t have more usable energy still? Creationists sometimes try to get around this by claiming that the information carried by living things lets them create order. However, not only is life irrelevant to the 2nd law, but order from disorder is common in nonliving systems, too. Snowflakes, sand dunes, tornadoes, stalactites, graded river beds, and lightning are just a few examples of order coming from disorder in nature; none require an intelligent program to achieve that order. In any nontrivial system with lots of energy flowing through it, you are almost certain to find order arising somewhere in the system. If order from disorder is supposed to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, why is it ubiquitous in nature?
The thermodynamics argument against evolution displays a misconception about evolution as well as about thermodynamics, since a clear understanding of how evolution works should reveal major flaws in the argument. Evolution says that organisms reproduce with only small changes between generations (after their own kind, so to speak). For example, animals might have appendages which are longer or shorter, thicker or flatter, lighter or darker than their parents. Occasionally, a change might be on the order of having four or six fingers instead of five. Once the differences appear, the theory of evolution calls for differential reproductive success. For example, maybe the animals with longer appendages survive to have more offspring than short-appendaged ones. All of these processes can be observed today. They obviously don’t violate any physical laws.
Excellent reply Clarence.
except that the “universe” is a “closed system” so the 2nd law of thermodynamics would apply, and his “rebuttal” is flawed.
But we don’t need to explain the existence of life in the whole universe, only in an individual open system that has energy flowing through it from a low-entropy transmitter.
And what’s the alternative? God? Every argument that starts this way veers into the God of the gaps. This is one of the weakest forms because it’s one where we DO know how it all works, as opposed to, say, the jump from simple proteins to complex chemicals like DNA which is still a mystery (but won’t be so for that long).
It’s the anthropic principle: Humans exist, so there must be a problem with any theory that declares that they don’t. Your argument applies to ANY non-religious source of the idea of life, based on its flawed understanding of thermodynamics. By your reasoning, there can’t be any stars either, and nuclear fusion is just a lie…
“…the “universe” is a “closed system”…”
What a common mistake! The Universe – if you use the term to denote “everything out there” – is not a concrete system, it is an abstraction, therefore the 2nd law cannot be applied to it. If you use the term ‘Universe’ concretely to name the system of the Big Bang than you shouldn’t be surprised that there is a bigger system above it – nowadays called Multiverse – and your argument is misguided again.
Don’t we see, that anytime we suppose grasping the Universe (wholeness), it is is always a ‘holon’ (part of a bigger whole)?
How about the evolution of thought and knowledge.
nice response……
except that the “universe” is a “closed system” so the 2nd law of thermodynamics would apply, and his “rebuttal” is flawed.
There is no absolute disorder (chaos). Everything in the universe (at least) is ordered. All things follow laws and rules (yes, even at the quantum level) so the 2nd “law” of thermodynamics is more like an “assumption” since everything is already ordered–there are just various levels/degrees/magnitudes of order. Just because someone can’t detect the order and thinks a system is “chaotic” doesn’t mean the system actually IS absoluetely disordered/chaotic. The person making the “chaotic/disordered” judgement just isn’t spending enough time to discover the order in the system. Fractals are perhaps the most pivotal example of “ordered chaos” out there that, if more people would look into, they would see that nothing is really chaotic/disordered in the first place.
My point is: life does not come from non-life. Everything is already alive but most people’s understanding of what life really is is incomplete. Evolution is intelligently designed–by itself. The entire universe (and beyond) is alive and interconnected (on the quantum level).
yet most “evolustioinists” believe in “the big bang” and “abiogenesis”
aka “life from non life” or “spontaneous generation” which is unscientific to say the least. , most would call it “the big bang religion” or “the religion or evolution”
I wonder how many scientists believe in unscientific things. Seems almost contradictory. Fact is, they’re not, they have empirical evidence, and the best part is that the empirical evidence is actually not that hard for you to get at an introductory level. You just haven’t tried.
“the fact that life is not a closed system”
but the “universe is” a closed system? so the 2nd law of thermodynamics could still apply to “evolution” / “life” within the “closed system of the universe”.
The documentary was well done, the only question i have to Chris and Mike is do they in fact believe that E.T’s exist? Because if they do exist in there eyes via scientific,historical and geographical data then they’ve technically failed to debunk the over all theory that aliens do exist and have had something to do with human in the near past.Have they destroyed the shows credibility, absolutely!but failed to point out that E.T`s don`t exist.In addition they also fail to explain the inspirations for the monolithic monuments.What truly inspires a human to build structures that he will more than likely never live in. Humans can attribute very few things to themselves except laziness!
I also watched with interest but didn’t like the spin at the end either. It feels like being manipulated. So I agree with the other posts.
“Was an excellent debunking until it went completely off the rails with the “Noah’s Ark must be true” and “Nephilim are real” nonsense, your clear Christian bias shone through there. If you think ANY culture descended from 8 individuals you lack even a high school understanding of biology”
Actually, the common biological consensus is that WE are descended from one small breeding group about 100,000-200,000 years ago. Apparently high school biology failed you. It may have been a flood that reduced us to the “children of Eve”. Of course, the theory could be false or have corrections or it could have not been a flood at all, but we don’t know. The shared mythological themes are fascinating, and those are REAL mysteries to discover, not this aliens crap.
The “eve” mythology taken by the Jews to put in there Bible comes from Egypt and we get the original version of it from Solon via Plato wherein he describes the island of Atlantis and the “Evenor” Genesis of mankind. By the way Adam in Chaldea-Babylonian means “The blood father” the Hebrew has it as “The blood line” but the Sumerian is “Fire Serpent” as in the “Lord’s fiery serpent” who tempts Evenor in the garden which is originally, per the Egyptians a Phoenician myth.
Speaking of which there is massive evidence available that a world-wide sea trade culture existed prior to all of the histories ever written. It was called Phoenicia and you can find writing, stone monuments, coinage on every continent. You can even find it embedded in the names used by cultures who supposedly never had contact with the East like the Inca who used the name ‘Inti’ for their ‘Sun God’ which is cognate with the Hindu Indra, Induru and in Sumerian language magically, with no contact remember, magically happens to mean exactly the same thing when spelled; En.Di “To shine, as in shining like the sun” and An.Di “shining god.” Does anyone think the ancient Inca night have viewed solar phenomena from the Andes? Or that the mountains are named after their God?
This was a great thing to watch right up until the end. The irony of requiring physical evidence for every single fact and refuting it point by point by looking at the physical facts that are available, than turning around and saying, “well this is believable because so many people believed it” is just foolish.
Giants roamed the earth? Show me fossils/skeletons of these nephilim.
By his definition of what is real, so many people believing in something, Aliens do exist, simply because so many people believe in it. Nice logical fallacy there. Ruined this documentary to the point where I wouldn’t even recommend it.
Let me google that for you, free with resources cited. I’m sure some are fake, many are not.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/830123/posts
The argument isn’t, “People believed it, so it must be true”. The argument is, “People who had no point of common cultural contact believed it, so the story has to be very old, with a common root that precedes the exodus from Africa. And because it stayed relatively the same with minor variations, as with many shared myths, there must be some shared event that was passed down”. Given that it is well-accepted that we are descended from a very small bottleneck about 100,000-200,000 years ago, the idea that it actually referred to SOMETHING (probably not real giants but maybe Neanderthals or something, who knows) is quite likely. The alternative that is reasonable is Jung’s idea of the archetypal: We’ve learned certain shared fears and concepts. Just like spider and snake phobias are found in every culture probably because of evolutionary advantage in being instinctively afraid of things that are venomous (though of course many cultures imagine spiders and snakes very differently, and have very different dragon mythos), so too is there likely to be repeating ideas in the subconscious that are evolutionarily inherited.
Was an excellent debunking until it went completely off the rails with the “Noah’s Ark must be true” and “Nephilim are real” nonsense, your clear Christian bias shone through there. If you think ANY culture descended from 8 individuals you lack even a high school understanding of biology.
The titled theme of debunking and challenging some of the established conclusions made by the ancient alien series. Is a presentation that is not worth recommending but is worth watching- once. by pointing out inaccuracies of fact, and in highlighting errors in methodology. focusing on very specific and simplistic details while trying to establish a seemingly coherent reason why the conclusions made in the original AA series cannot or should not be logically kept by any curious mind. Ensuring a curious mind to wallow in lowest common denominator uncertainty. Leaving a high degree of uncertainty to still reside in the curious mind of the audience.
The debunking process simply mirrors the same errors of inaccuracies of fact and problems with its methodology. And that is only with the details they have chosen to refute. By never directly stating that ancient aliens NEVER existed.
Along with their brilliantly imaginative last piece in their presentation. Ensures that the audience on the balance of informed probability can only be left wondering what did really happen on this planets recent history. To have left behind such intricate signs of intelligence and understanding. Seemingly beyond our current state of rationale acceptance. Highlighted by Allowing this debate to descend into arguing about equally flawed details and ending with some dreamy opposing belief structures.ensures that a healthier debate needs to continue.
until both sides focus on the sheer scale of intelligent signs left behind. And accept that until we do, the ancients were obviously far further advanced, we can just hope the origin of their superiority to be human. Showing us and thus Giving us the required universal faith, to believe that hope is still a credible force for our species. If the only hope is that our quest for knowledge should unite us not divide us and not frighten us from any further pursuit of knowledge and understanding.
I hope English is not your first language; if so, dude, you’re in trouble. You’re completely incoherent. Your sentence structure is wacko. You just can’t write. I hope your writing is not a reflection of your speaking.
i got cancer reading that, but i got his point. Maybe ill be a good school teacher, making sense of nonsense :)
“If you think ANY culture descended from 8 individuals you lack even a high school understanding of biology.”
But evolutionary theory actually says all life on earth descended from ONE amoeba! So, actually, if asserting that any culture descended from 8 individuals is absurd, evolutionary theory which asserts that all life descended from ONE amoeba is a billion times more absurd. I think it is *YOU* who never finished high school.
Thank you. I’m glad someone said it. People don’t even realize how ignorant they make themselves sound
you.. do not understand evolutionary biology. at all. and something tells me explaining it will do no good if your mind is okay allowing you to come to that conclusion. like, logic is not the place in this discussion and knowledge will not be respected.
Single celled organisms are extremely different from complex, multi-celluar organisms like people. If you put 8 people on a deserted island (especially if they are related), they may well reproduce, except the lineage will more than likely die out due to insuperable mutations and certainly not enough genetic variations. There is no ONE amoeba that started it all, but again, evolution takes an incredibly long time.
Boomed. I hope this isn’t a discussion a real argument of evolutionary process. Ancient Aliens is untrue but its not explained by backwards thinking like Christianity. If you look thru history you will see the purpose of your idiotic faith was nothing more then a more effective way to control pop. Of ppl. AA is bs cuz there is no evidence on it, neither for God which is actually so less likely then Aliens it hularious. The orgamism vs 8 ppl debate can be summed up exactly to what this person said. Can’t believe someone can comeback with bs they did.
“Backwards thinking like Christianity”. Are you serious? Let me guess, just another athiest or anti-Christian individual who knows less about Christianity than he knows about the topic he’s wrighting about.
But evolutionary theory actually says all life on earth descended from ONE amoeba! So, actually, if asserting that any culture descended from 8 individuals is absurd, evolutionary theory which asserts that all life descended from ONE amoeba is a billion times more absurd. I think it is *YOU* who never finished high school.
No, claiming that life descended from (One-Singular) Amoeba is fullish if not blatantly misleading. Amoeba number in the billions and over time became more complex lifeforms. Some lifeforms became more complex and other more simpler but none came from a (Singular) lifeform.
Oh and descending implies how life came from higher form to lower form while evolve implies how life can change from one form to another. Evolution is not Ascension either, So nobodies guaranteed to become a translucent astral spiritual version of oneself that will transverse the vastness of space and time while hobnobbing with God or The Gods.
At the end, Ancient Aliens is nothing more than a gimmick show for the fringe Crypto-astrologist believer out there. But its no better than the fringe nuts who believe “Anti-Christ” Shows on the History Channel are a forecast of a dire future. Your both different than Wrestling Fans.
It looks like the all blinding Christianity religion trying to take over again. It interesting how people can believe in a version of a book that contradicts itself. The old testament shows God as a cold killer. Killing every man woman and child in towns that had different beliefs. to a god that says turn the other cheak if someone slaps you in the new testament.
The bible has provoked more wars than, any other book on the planet. The Jews have been persecuted all throughout history, because of the belief that they are special are chosen by god as stated in the Old Testament. I say that your bible heroes are not here anymore and it is time for us to stop believing that we cannot help this planet and advance as a society by getting away from religious restraints, as the christian belief teaches, that we are all doomed so we may as well give up on the life that we know it and patiently wait for death. Putting those who want to make a difference in the belief that we can’t without an invisible god or Jesus. Which will limit one from their own ideas and potential.
People say there is no God, bet yet you believe we came from pond scum? Both take a miracle people. God is with us and our conscious is proof. Nothing else on earth has it.
I might argue that our conscience (or lack there-of as is often the case) may be exactly what makes us a little LESS God-like than all other life on earth…
Biology or not everything had to come from somewhere whether it be christian or science. you all rely on carbon dating because some guy wrote about it in a book, but when christians rely on faith beause someone wrote it in a book they are unintelligent. You weren’t there at the beginnng of time and neither was I. Let’s just stop makng people feel bad for what they believe. If u keep going back far enough, the question will still remain. Where did it come from. Molecules, Big Bang, Sun, moon, etc.
Faith isn’t belief. Faith is trust. You trust what you KNOW you should trust. We start trusting our parents, then siblings then friends then teachers….
Belief: I can believe the moon is made of cheese but so what? It’s still rock. As for spiritual: Eckart Tolle says that what you believe doesn’t make you spiritual but what your state of consciousness is is what your spiritual self is. Your state of awareness which is related to abstract thoughts created out of language.
We (humans) developed language therefore consciousness. Then as that language develped further we became aware of that which language could further describe. Just how did humans develope a language which allowed them to move megalithic blocks of stone that modern super-sized cranes would have difficulty doing? How and why did they make blocks of stone that were cut with such precision that only modern day CNC equipment could provide? These and many other such questions need to be answered. Where they aliens or where they a lost race of human kind? There is much empircal evidence of lost cities under the seas. I suggest Graham Hancock’s “Underworld” for more on that last question. Von Daniken asked many questions which the “scientific” community refuses or can’t answer. I say “scientific” because if it were tru scientists then they wouls at least TRY to answer him. But one thing I will go on the record with and this is coming from a former right-winger and a guy who was a street preacher from the age of 12 in Bushwick in the 70s – to believe in the Bible as Literal is like using a coloring book as a reference for life. Only a person with either very limited education or very stifled spiritual growth will accept literally the Bible. To believe that we all came from two naked persons who talked with a serpent and plucked a fruit from a tree essentially damning all humankind for thousans fo years or to believe that one single family cared for two of every living thing on the face of the planet including insects and birds removing waste and such…. well it is childish.
The “eight individuals” is nothing more than mythology of the Ogdoad council of original eight deities in Egypt. These “eight” have a Norse counterpart in the Aesir and Vanir as well as the Greek with the old gods and probably with the Hindu as different aspects of Indra; their primary god. Anytime, anywhere the recurring numbers of 4, 8 and 12 appear your gleaning into a mythological explanation for things like the seasons, the year, Zodiac signs at aphelion during the source of the year in different months, the lunar phases and the Zodiac in general. Language, the terminology used today has evolved in a way that more accurately reflects the science and language itself have grown immensely more descriptive than it was four thousand years ago. Yes, this includes the Bible which is also mythology with references to Druid practices (Leviticus) the Celtic and Norse gardens of heaven and the apple garden in Arthur mythology, it is all just a different way of telling the same story. When you read them all you’ll immediately see it.
To free—333.. You read I’m sure so where do you come up with 8 individuals? God said take 2 of every flesh..Seems to me that all the races are made of flesh. It is also written the giant race survived the flood,which was probably a local flood there is no definate writings on this. A lot of the 6th day creation people probably also survived. The Noah story is a link in the geneology of Christs’ bloodline umbilicle cord to umbilicle cord. The nephiliam, the sex with Eve was all part of Satans’ atempt to destroy the pure bloodline in which Christ was to be born from. Oh and yes it was Satan having a threesome with Adam and Eve not eating of an apple,did they cover their mouths with fig leaves?,no their private parts,and Eve had faternal twins from 2 diferrant fathers,which happens all the time,ask a doctor. Your eternal soul depends on your choices here and now on these testing grounds. We are in the second Earth age
Not 8 individuals but two of every flesh. Are not all the races made of flesh?
I did not like the Christian spin they pulled toward the end.
Is anyone aware of any debunking theories by someone who does not have a religious agenda?
I can say with confidence that if you read the mythology of all the different cultures you’ll find there is no truth in any of it. All of it has to deal with simplified (for our times) explanation of sciences like astronomy. Try Hamlet’s Mill out by Giorgio De Santillana, it will literally blow your mind. Jesus is another in a long line of Sheppard Sun King’s, part of the Druidic Divine King, which is also Egyptian and Babylonian and Celtic AND Norse. The basic nutshell is does mankind choose it’s king or does God? Does the man fulfill prophecy? Is he then the one appointed by God to lead or is it the richest family who has soldiers to fight for them? The ancient Greeks believed this idea, which they clearly got from the Celtic Druids, long before Jesus appeared; Achilles, Alexander, Apollo a sun-king (chosen by God) archetype for Jesus. If there is a god AND he chooses then why aren’t we right now being lead by a supernatural wonder-worker? What is God waiting for? Convince the educated by bringing out your big guns and prove it is real once and for all.
hmmm..has every1 forgot about history and all the things that have happened to suppress us and our views?!?!??? what about the mass public book burnings? ‘one truth, one law’! by the church! caesar, napoleon, victoria…there were others, lol, but r escaping me jst now ;) but still, the facts r there.. look at the sanskrit texts…..1,000’s of yrs old!! they tell of wars in areas where still today the ground is so highly radioactive….hmmm..think people!! u r all being taken for a ride on a fckd up magical mystery tour, by a world government that most definately does not have our best interests at heart..and as for ancient technology…….OPEN ur eyes and look !! he who seeks will find. ;) and christians…mental…do u know how MANY christians ive spoken to and asked some BASIC questions about our history, and they had NEVER heard ANY of what i told them!?! FACTS! people. FACTS!! and they base all their beliefs and FAITH in something they’ve been spoon fed since birth….it is so sad that in this day and age, we still live in a draconian/cosmetic society. i hope u all wake up one day. :) i really do. viva la revolution!!!
I, for one, think I am waking up….after being raised in a Southern Baptist “Christian” home and community, my eyes began to open when I went to college and began to ask obvious questions that could not rationally be explained…then over time I began to see that we were being manipulated and conditioned to see the world, history, government, religion, etc, a certain way that only profited a few, the elite, the wealthy, the religious institutions…OMG, my idealism has been shattered by truth and facts. I am disappointed and ashamed for being so gullible. BUT I would rather know the truth about things like history, civilization, human origins, G-D, than live in a fantasy world.
I am optimistic that more and more people are waking up, they are at least scratching their heads and asking questions.
What “facts” have you asked Christians that didn’t know of it, or hear of it?
BTW- Jesus was a real person. Not one statement in the Bible has been disproven, including the empty tomb/ 1,000’s seeing the resurrected Christ/ His miracles documented by unbias people/ leaders/ rulers. Even the worldwide (or nearly) 3 hrs of darkness and catastrophic earthquake- recorded as far away as China.
But, let me guess, you believe in Evolution. Yes? So, considering all the crazy evolving that had to of gone on, considering the mind blowing numbers if life (microscopic to complex), even ignoring where that life began or the bldg blocks (minerals, etc), why do we not see any MACRO evolution happening? Or, where is the transitional fossil records that Darwin said should be littering our soil? Or, how did our eye “evolve”- 40 unique and individual systems that came together to give us our vision.
You claim facts, yet you allow your own bias and programming from secular media & indoctrination public schools, to cloud your sight. I truly hope you will follow your own advice, and seek honest truth. Use critical thought, follow the evidence (supported evidence, backed up), go outside of your bias. I honestly do hope you all will do this.
But, yes! He did an amazing job debunking this Ancient Astronauts programmed, aired and supported in History channel. A program that they chose to air. Now, why didn’t history channel do the same.?. Food for thought (I hope).
Once all the souls(children) God has created are born of women, Satan will be kicked out of heaven where Michael has him bound. He will show up here and perform ‘miracles’ like no has has ever seen. He’ll expect people to worship him,oh and many will because they were to busy to read the letter that was left for us to read. We are in that generation now, the generation of the fig tree which Christ told us to learn. When Israel is a kingdom/state again a place where there are good and bad figs. Well Israel became such a place in 1947,Christ said all these things will come to pass before a generation passes. Bible mentions 3 generations 40,70 and 120 years,..which one? No one knows but the Father
thank you im happy to see there are more open minded people than just theses close minded religious people. an actually jeff science like quantam physics deals with the world we cant see. im glad you think there is one all mighty being because its been drilled into you since childhood an science has proven there is a god gene which is why were prone to believing in a higher power. but I love how there is more evidence and proof of higher intelligence, but yet you have faith in something that only exists cause of misinterpretation. the Christian god Yahweh or muslim god allah were most likely the same intelligent societies influencing ancient man. open your eyes dude and actually read the bible not the modern version either!! the old Hebrew version before it was translated 3 times. Hebrew to greek, greek to old English old English to modern English!!! but to those who have an open mind. question everything and the truth will be exposed soon. lets just hope the 3 billion people in the world who believe in Christianity,islam, an judiasm don’t freak out an go into denial.
What do u know, skeptics found out the truth about aliens! Wow, anything to add to debumk prthe existence of our planet?
Please STOP the nonsense!
Thank you,
Actually, I missed to notice that .
What do you mean with ‘christian spin’ exactly ?
Ok, I watched again the ‘flood’ part .
I didn’t notice that the first time .
Yep, I agree with you, C4nr .
He thinks the flood actually occured .
There is no geological evidence of a global flood, though :
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
He sorta slipped on that, didn’t he ?
I actually thought about this, and he could mean the ice cap melting. That ended 10k years ago. Tons of land was lost due to this. I’m not saying this is what happened, but when you think that they are talking about stories that are 5k years old, maybe it is what they mean? Just a thought.
Also, I should mention I am a hardcore Atheist. I don’t believe in Noah’s Ark or any of that mess.