In this week’s eSkeptic:
See Steven Pinker on October 23rd
The Better Angels of Our Nature:
Why Violence has Declined
Sunday, October 23, 2011 at 2 pm
BECKMAN AUDITORIUM
FACED WITH THE CEASELESS STREAM OF NEWS about war, crime, and terrorism, one could easily think we live in the most violent age ever seen. Yet as the Harvard University psychologist and New York Times bestselling author Steven Pinker shows in this startling and engaging new work, just the opposite is true: violence has been diminishing for millennia and we may be living in the most peaceful time in our species’ existence. For most of history, war, slavery, infanticide, child abuse, assassinations, pogroms, gruesome punishments, deadly quarrels, and genocide were ordinary features of life. But today, Pinker shows all these forms of violence have dwindled and are widely condemned. How has this happened? Find out at the lecture!…
Tickets are $10 Skeptics Society members/Caltech/JPL community; $15 everyone else. Tickets may be purchased in advance through the Caltech ticket office at 1-626-395-4652 or at the door. Ordering tickets ahead of time is strongly recommended. The Caltech ticket office asks that you do not leave a message. Instead call between 12:00 and 5:00 Monday through Friday.
Science Symposium Now on DVD
Our 2011 Science Symposium was a rare opportunity to hear four of the world’s leading Skeptics discuss their experiences fighting irrationality and promoting science, and what you could do to help! Speakers included: Dr. Michael Shermer, James “The Amazing” Randi and special guests: Bill Nye the Science Guy® and Mr. Deity (Brian Keith Dalton).
Missed the Symposium? Get the Lectures on DVD!
For those of you who could not make it to the Symposium earlier this year, you can now purchase all the lectures on DVD:
- The Believing Brain, by Michael Shermer
- On Science Religion & Morality, by Michael Shermer
- The Future of Science, Technology, and Education, by Bill Nye and James Randi
- The Belief Changing Kit, a 3-DVD Set with Audience Q&A
with Bill Nye, James Randi, Brian Dalton, and Donald Prothero - Mr. Deity and Friends, with Brian Keith Dalton
Watch the Symposium Q&A for free!
Five leading skeptics (Bill Nye, James Randi, Donald Prothero, Brian Dalton, and Michael Shermer) met at Caltech during the Skeptics Society’s Science Symposium to discuss their experiences communicating science to the public. Young audience members took advantage of these experts to ask excellent questions. This video includes one of the hottest topics in the skeptical community today: What is the most effective approach for educating the public and promoting skepticism, science, and critical thinking skills—confrontation, or a more gentle and respectful approach?
NEW FROM DANIEL LOXTON
ON SKEPTICBLOG.ORG
The Making of Ankylosaur Attack!
With the release of his new dinosaur storybook, Ankylosaur Attack!, many younger scientists (especially those aged four to eight) are asking Daniel, “How did you make these pictures look so real?” He’ll discuss that further at the Vancouver International Writers Festival next week, but gives Skepticblog readers a first glimpse behind the scenes.
Interview with
Jennifer Hancock
This week on Skepticality, Derek sits down with Jennifer Hancock to discuss her newest book, Jen Hancock’s Handy Humanism Handbook. In this work, Jen attempts to give people a quick, easy, book which describes the philosophy of Humanism and how it relates to culture and personal happiness.
Get the Skepticality App and enjoy your science fix and engaging interviews on the go! Available for Android, iPhone, iPad, and iPod Touch iOS 3.0 or later.
Did this mysterious artifact actually fall from a UFO as Bob White claimed?
In this week’s eSkeptic, Skeptic co-founder Pat Linse is contacted by an expert who has the expertise to solve the mystery of Bob White’s UFO artifact—an object which has long baffled both the public and the scientists who examined it. This article appeared in Skeptic magazine volume 16, number 3 (2011).
Bob White’s Great UFO
Artifact Mystery—Solved!
(Sometimes All it Takes is Finding the Right Expert.)
by Pat Linse, with Ean Harrison
Apsychic was taking phone calls on a late night radio show. His next caller was clearly upset—you could hear the fear in his voice. “I think I might be possessed” he confessed. “When I drive at night the street lights often turn off as I approach. I’m afraid it might be a warning that something terrible is about to happen.” The psychic tried to reassure him, “You definitely have some kind of extraordinary power, but it’s not necessarily negative. The lights that go out could mean that one phase of your life is over and you are about to enter a new one…”
As the psychic droned on about focusing on the positive and seeking out new opportunities, the phone lines lit up at the radio station. Dozens of people were trying to get through to offer an explantation for the ominous behavior of the street lights. They were all from one specific profession, but they were not scientists or psychologists.
The psychic’s explanation to the frightened man was suddenly cut off and a new voice came on the air. “We would like to let our listeners know that our phone lines have been jammed by people who have a very straightforward explanation for the caller’s problem. They are auto mechanics and they are all suggesting that the caller have his headlights adjusted. If headlights are aimed too high they trigger the daylight sensor on streetlights and turn them off. It’s a common problem.”
Luckily for the caller, the right experts were listening to provide a solution. Those familiar with skeptical literature are aware of James Randi’s tireless effort to point out that many supposed paranormal mysteries that have stumped scientists can be solved by the expertise of magicians.
Now another mystery has been solved with information provided by the right expert. The solution calls to mind Michael Shermer’s frequent admonition, “Before you say something is out of this world, make sure it isn’t of this world.”
Bob White’s UFO Artifact
The late Bob White’s mysterious object (see photo above) is touted on the internet as hard evidence for the existence of UFOs: “This isn’t the smoking gun—this is the bullet!!!!” And it has been included on or near the top of UFO “best evidence” lists.1, 2 In 1985, according to White’s sworn deposition, he was napping as he and a companion drove west through the desolate country between Grand Junction, CO and the Utah border. After 2 or 3 in the morning White’s friend woke him for a second time—the odd light they’d noticed before in the sky seemed to be getting bigger. White recalled:
[The light] was about the size of a full harvest moon… As we got closer, it grew larger… When we were a few hundred yards from it, I turned off the ignition and we coasted up close to it… It was huge, the size of a very big barn. I got out of the car…for a better look. For some unknown reason, Jan turned on the headlights, and this light went up in the sky as fast as my eyes could follow it… Then I saw another small light, bright orange with a tinge of yellow, white, and blue falling from it… I climbed the incline and went over to where I thought it might have hit. I found a groove in the ground about 18 inches deep and 9 inches wide. I followed the groove and there it lay… it was still glowing.3
White stashed the object in his trunk, and fearing that the story would harm his entertainment career, said nothing about it until after he retired.
From 1996 to his death in 2009, the now retired Bob White devoted himself to promoting his artifact as a piece of hard evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial engineering. His quest was not without its frustrations—his artifact, if genuine, should have been one of the greatest discoveries of all time—but he did manage to attract some media attention. He gave interviews, spoke at UFO conventions, wrote a book titled UFO Hard Evidence (Galde Press 2004), set up a small museum to house his artifact (where he is said to have offered the object for sale for ten million dollars), and was featured on a number of TV shows.
Production budgets of shows like the History Channel’s UFO Hunters, Unsolved Mysteries, and Jane Goldman Investigates (a series produced in the UK) allowed him to present the object to scientists for testing, with mixed results. While it was easily established to be made of aluminum, it had no apparent working parts. UFO enthusiasts focused on proving its extraterrestrial origin by suggesting the composition of the metal matched nothing on earth. They compared isotope ratios in the object to those of meteors, tried to establish that it emitted unusual radioactivity, or focused on inclusions and trace elements in the metal. No one seemed to wonder why a supposedly sophisticated piece of alien technology looked like it had been unceremoniously hacked off at one end.
Expertise to the Rescue
A foundry standgrinder (click image to enlarge). (A) is the grinding wheel composed of abrasive and adhesive. (B) is where the casting rests. The stalagmites form inside the grinding wheel guard (C) just behind the two large bolt heads.
Not many large stalagmites exist as souvenirs anymore because the metal is now so valuable that it is collected and sold for scrap. There is also a concerted effort to keep the grinding guards clean and remove the stalagmites before they grow so large that they break off and destroy the grinder by becoming jammed between the guard and wheel. It is possible that Bob White’s artifact was not identified sooner because few old foundries remain which use the antiquated grinding equipment that produces them. Foundry work in the U.S. has been steadily outsourced to developing nations such as Mexico, China, and India.
Our expert Ean Harrison is a retired steel foundry quality control supervisor who worked in the Seattle area. Not only can he explain the origin of Bob White’s strange object, he once owned several of them and used them as garden ornaments. Harrison writes:
The object in question is made of accreted grinding residue. It forms in a manner similar to a common stalagmite when metal castings are “cleaned” on large stationary grinders. Rough castings need to have the parting line fins and gates smoothed to facilitate machining and reduce tool breakage. A typical stationary grinder in a foundry cleaning room used to hand clean castings up to 40 pounds may have a composite wheel 3 feet in diameter and 4 inches wide or larger. The casting is placed on a work guard just like the small grinder found in home workshops, and the piece is fed against the surface of the wheel, grinding off parting line fins, weld repairs, and gate bosses. The grinding dust is spewed downward into the wheel guard at a temperature near the melting point of the parent metal. When the metal dust and grinding wheel abrasive hit the bottom of the guard, the melted epoxy wheel binder glues the mixture together. Over time a stalagmite is slowly created from the bottom up, that fuses the parent metals into the characteristic form. Depending on the size of the machine, a stalagmite can easily grow to a length of 2 feet or more. Also, depending on the castings being ground, the composition of the stalagmite could be an exotic mix of stainless steel, manganese, mild steel, aluminum—in other words, a very puzzling metallurgical mix all combined in a seemingly impossible compound. But in reality it is merely a product of the melted grinding wheel binder. eventually the stalagmite grows high enough to block the opening at the base of the grinding guard. The housing must be opened, the stalagmite broken off, thrown away, recycled, used as a yard ornament, or reported as something tossed out of a UFO.
It is unfortunate so many people have been deceived into thinking an industrial waste product is concrete evidence for a UFO. But I suppose the possibility remains that an alien sailing along in a UFO was processing castings on a stationary grinder and tossed the stalagmite down at Mr. White—but one would wonder why they are still using such primitive technology.
One and two-horned steel stalagmites, each about 4 inches (10 cm) high. Foundry stalagmites come in many shapes and textures—from soft soggy oil-oozing blobs to elegant feathered needles. (A) and (B) (above) are fairly typical steel stalagmites with short scales and a coarse grainy texture. (Click image to enlarge)
Our custom-made two-horned carbide steel stalagmite exhibits long layered scales and a fine texture. An expert grinder operator took a look at a photo of the Bob White artifact and produced this otherworldly object (C) for Skeptic magazine by using an extra fast, extra hot grind of carbide steel to keep the metal and adhesive mix near the metal’s melting point. (Click image to enlarge)
Acknowledgments
Our thanks to: B.J. Mayclin of Roemer Electric Steel Foundry, Longview, WA, for supplying stalagmites (A) and (B); and to Michael Gilmore and Pat Mason for researching stalagmite production at Los Angeles area metal shops; and to Francisco Rosales for creating stalagmite (C) for this article.
Except for the top photo in this article (Bob White’s artifact), all photos were taken by Michael Gilmore, David Patton and Ean Harrison.
References
About the Authors
PAT LINSE is an award winning illustrator who specialized in film industry art before becoming one of the founders of the Skeptics Society, Skeptic magazine, and the creator of Junior Skeptic magazine. As Skeptic magazine’s Art Director, she has created many illustrations for both Skeptic and Junior Skeptic. She is co-editor, along with Michael Shermer, of the The Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience.
EAN HARRISON is currently retired and dedicates his time to public service, organizing programs for the Cowlitz chapter of The National Institute for Mental Illness. A member of The Cowlitz County Regional Support Network Advisory Board, Harrison is currently helping establish a Cowlitz County Youth Suicide Prevention Program, and designing art therapy experiential exercises for psychotherapy interventions for people suffering from addiction and substance abuse. He holds B.A. in Environmental Design from the University of Washington. Harrison has published peer reviewed research in Environment and Behavior magazine with Phillip Thiel and Richard Alden. Foundry specialization and certification include: Quality Control Supervisor, Jarrell Ash Mass Spectrographic Analysis, Ultrasonic Analysis of Steel Castings, Metallurgy, Welding Inspection and Quality Assurance, Cleaning Room Operations, and Analysis and Reduction of Casting Defects.
Skeptical perspectives on pseudoscience and skepticism…
-
The Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience
Michael Shermer, Pat Linse, Eds.
-
Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud
by Robert L. Park
-
The Skeptic’s Dictionary
by Robert Carroll
-
Believing In Magic: The Psychology of Superstition
by Stuart A. Vyse
Rewriting my article is very low of you.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread16784/pg3
this was solved
20-5-2009
so it’s not news…
at least some recognition …
Actually the mystery was solved in 1985 when Mr. White’s story was being circulated. Any foundryman could immediately identify the object when shown a photo. It was great entertainment back then, (Bob White was a talented entertainer), but the entertainment ended when the artifact was put up for sale. Like you said, it really isn’t new information, but Pat Linse has created a wonderful story to catch the publics’ attention by integrating entertainment with factual information. I’m sure anyone considering plunking down several million dollars for the object is very grateful for Pat’s article as well as to you, if they would see your terrific photos. I hope you will continue exposing the myth in the interest of public harm reduction.
Well the case you present is very weak.
A steel worker can make something that looks similar to the bob white artifact.
Thats it?! no tests, no professionals, no scientists, none of your own money spent to research.
Not a convincing argument.
(have you no quality to your journalism?)
I was fascinated by the opening section of the feature article here. It repeats a common misconception about the streetlight phenomenon described by the caller. Even if the headlights were so outrageously misalaigned as to pointing straight up, they would not trip the sensor on the top of the streetlight. Headlights at that distance just aren’t bright enough, or hitting the sensor at the right angle.
The actual explanation has to do with the behaviour of sodium vapour lights commonly used in streetlights, and confirmation bias. Sodium vapour lights that overheat can fail in an explosively spectacular fashion. For this reason, they are fitted with an automatically resetting thermal circuit breaker. If the light overheats, the breaker trips, then resets when the bulb has cooled enough to be safe. As the light bulb ages, it burns less efficiently, and heats up faster, tripping the breaker more frequently. A bulb in the last stages of its life can go through this cycle every several minutes. Confirmation bias does the rest. The listener believed it was significant when a few bulbs shut off as he approached, but that it was insignificant that thousands more did not.
And I am not even an expert in streetlights.
I agree that the caller’s real problem could have been at least in part confirmation bias–perhaps the most common explantation for those who suppose they might have psychic power. However the radio show mentioned took place around 35-40 years ago, before sodium vapor lamps were in wide use. So the streetlights were most likely something common in the 60s.
35-40 years ago, the streetlights could still have been Sodium Vapour. Prior to that, they might have been Mercury Vapour, which went into service as much as 50-60 years ago, and, under some conditions, exhibit a similar cycling behaviour.
your expert on on steel dont know squat..dont you think after 12 labs have had this object tested from one end to the other they WOULD KNOW GRINDINGS FROM A CUT OFF WHEEL biggest bunch of BULL I HAVE EVER READ..
There isnt a pile of shavings under a grinding wheel with a vickers hardness scale of over 70.. no why…scientists have stated that this metal was manufactured for a specific purpose..its not random.
steel will form hard as it welds itself to each partical..aluminum will not do that in an oxygen enviroment in a layered sharp edge design the bob white artifact has.
your explanation hardly holds water and has been used more than once..talk to the people who have hands on experience with this artifact..then maybe you could publish a story that is correct.
larry cekander
I was the Executive Director of the Museum of the Unexplained and compiled the techical reports for Bob White’s book UFO HARD EVIDENCE. I did the tests on Bob’s object with dental x-ray film that showed the object emitted two distinct spots of radiation that exposed the x-ray film. Without going into too much detail, I urge everyone interested in the truth about Bob’s object to read the four references at the end of the article. In reference 1 is the NIDS analysis on Bob’s object done at New Mexico Tech; our electromagnetic tests done on Bob’s object; Test Results on Bob White’s Object compiled by my brother Dr. James Gibbons and myself from the New Mexico data and Scripps data; and photos of Bob’s object and the CIC “Flying Saucer from Denmark” object. Reference 2 links to Bob’s conforums website which has photos of the bottom of the object showing what Los Alamos National Laboratory cut and what they gave Bob back; results of the isotope abundance ratio tests done at Scripps in La Jolla, CA; Bubble Chamber test data done in San Diego, CA in November, 2006; and a link to scientist David Lamb’s interview on the UFO HUNTERS where he discusses the aluminum properties of Bob’s object. Reference 3 links to the Above Top Secret website which then links to the conforums website mentioned above. Reference 4 links to Bob’s sworn statement and the results of his first polygraph test. Looking around this website shows additional material about Bob’s object.
Are you kidding me? The more I pay attention to skeptics on this matter the more they persuade me to believe aliens are actually present here. This blog is using Bill Nye as a reference? Bill fucking Nye? Bill Nye is looking for a way to cash in on his science background because he didn’t make it in stand up comedy…..google it….true story. Seth From Seti who is also a major leading skeptic in this issue states in all of his lechtures that while he doesn’t believe aliens are visiting he believes in robot human hybrids. Whos fucking crazy? These skeptic bandwagon jumpers that are trying to cash in.
I never believed in UFOs and extraterrestrials until I visited http://www.ufophenom.com/ Now I am a true beliver!
Lmao are you serious? Linking to a “jesus saves” website. Nice try buddy. Not falling for your dogmatic, fear-based, highly hypocritical group of “believers” anymore. I used to be a christian, but have learned to become more wise than that, and have a more open mind. One that believes ALL religions have some elements of truth, and its up to us to piece it all together and find our own way.
Good day sir.
I find it amazing that with all the growing evidence related to UFO’s, Videos in broad daylight as well at night, abductions, cattle mutilations and so on that anyone who bothered to do just a little research could not fail to recognise something big and very real is going on here and has been for a very long time. Skeptics are either blinkered idiots or trying to cash in on ignorance, or are so afraid of the truth that they cling onto any explanation other than the truth.
if an aledged expert give an EXPERT opinion but doesnt qualify as any kind of expert someone will believe the poo poo and cah cah…sceptic puts out alot cah cah..
mr Ean Harrison sure doesnt know the flow characteristics of aluminum. molten aluminum will never solidify in the manner the bob white object did in an oxygen rich atmosphere..all test say the the BWO object is a manufactured alloy but no one can identify the orgins or the use. just because steel or iron will layer aluminum will not. it always has rounded edges. end of debate
Please read the article a little more carefully and you will understand that the aluminum grinding residue and the carbide/quartz cut-off or grinding wheel particulates are all combined during the foundry/manufacturing, grinding/cutting process with melted epoxy and fiberglass. Grinding wheels and cut-off wheels are baked with fiberglass reinforcing layers and epoxy to minimize the danger to operators if the wheels explode. Using knowledge of grinding wheel construction one will discover that the Bob White Artifact is very similar to the composition of common foundry grinding wheels, with the addition of aluminum. Think of the creation of stalgmites in caves which build up over time with vertical droplets of limestone in a water solution. The processes are functionally quite similar with corresponding shapes. Ean
they do exsist i saw one,but more possible they are from here,as the underneath had like gerders like you get on a ship,also had hatch with light but made no sound.
There is no question that UFO’s exist. The big question is WHAT are they? Spaceships, dimentional ships, time ships or the US military experimenting with new technology? I too have seen a UFO when in the Army in 1978. About 50 of my company saw it in the sky. This was well before the USA had technology that could do what this UFO did. It was other-worldly and made an impact on my life.
That is what happens, when you see a real UFO, your perceptions of the universe change forever.
The same thing happens when you see “angels”. Unfortunately, the “fact” that someone saw an “angel” doesn’t cause that change of perception; what causes it is that someone saw what he THOUGHT was an angel. The experience of witnessing a UFO — in and of itself — is no different than that of witnessing a balloon caught in the breeze. The only difference is whether or not the observer believes he was looking at the transcendent yet oppressive vision of a craft capable of embodying the impossible, or merely a “puffed-out” bit of rubber trapped within the layered channels of air pressure and temperature. Being a witness to anything is a perception-based affair, and if you ignore the psychological underpinnings that are associated with it, you are essentially ignoring the greater part of the phenomenon. A “real UFO” isn’t necessary; you need more data to substantiate what may very well be your mistaken belief that you saw a “real UFO,” — and the number of witnesses is irrelevant. It’s easier to incite a riot within a peaceful crowd of “observers” when their numbers climb. It’s also easier to establish within a group an incorrect assumption, which is why the Supreme Court finds it problematic when various witnesses to an incident are allowed to discuss and compare their assessments with each other before identifying a guilty party. An accounting of an event that has been reached as the result of group consensus and dynamics is just as often error-prone as it is accurate, although admittedly, both terms are “relative” within the structures of the group itself. The point is, when trying to determine the truth inherent to any perception-based phenomenon, all bets are off. If you want to establish truth, you need something more than a couple of guys (or 50) willing to say, “I saw it; as a result, my perception of the universe has changed forever.”
My friend found a fist size crome metalic object out in the mts. It looks something like Mr. Whites object but crome or silver looking. Heavy for its size and its magnetic. I was wondering where I could send a picture. To determine what it could be.. I’ll be waiting for a reply. thank you
you can send one to larryroyc@yahoo.com
if its magnetic its unlikely its like what bob has as the artifact he recovered is aluminum with other exotic elements identified along with gamma beta and fast neutron readings from bubble chamber tests which where performed in san diego in 2006, emf readings, exposure of xray film and a polycrystiline amorphious peak not found in aluminum of the 80′s.
that is a recent process but still very high end work.
hardly slag from a foundry as this has been debunked by 12 labs including los alamos, scripts, new mexico tech, delta state, missouri state university, and all the other labs that have tested the artifact.
and i see mr harrison WHO HAS NEVER EVEN SEEN THE ARTIFACT HAS PIPED UP AGAIN WITH HIS VAST KNOWLEDGE OF GRINDING WHEELS..lol
that dont fly sir…i guess los alamos cant recognize powder from a grinding wheel.
first thing you need to de is see the artifact then MAYBE you could comment on its structure and origin.
larry
Your insulting attitude ruins your case and suggests that you don’t really have one. I’d be willing to bet almost anything that Los Alamos didn’t conduct as thorough an investigation as your claims tend to insist. Their resources are a lot more expensive than anything you can afford — that’s why it’s a government-run laboratory. And since it is a government-run laboratory, I’ll bet they only did a cursory investigation of the object as opposed to a very thorough one, using all of the resources at their command. You people who tend to denigrate those holding opinions contrary to your own are pretty sickening. If you have a case, them make it. And instead of spouting off such pathetic rejoinders intended to establish that your knowledge, and your tests, and the absolute quality of the tests that you’ve run or that were run at your behest are so superior to anything else being asserted, then release those reports, and tell us who conducted them and who decided what tests should be done so they can be properly interviewed to determine the actual efficacy of your claims. You are rude, ill-disciplined, and irresponsible, and you expect those qualities to establish your case, instead of the facts that you’ve apparently decided not to present. Your audience right now doesn’t even know whether the substance you’re discussing was tested as to whether it’s powder from a grinding wheel or anything else, and yet you’ve suggested that those who carried out the scientific portion of this investigation would have been quite capable of doing so, while expecting that capability ALONE should make your case more viable than another’s. It’s a government-run lab, you arrogant, pompous bore, and that means it’s not only subject to error, it also means they only conduct the tests they’ve been instructed to conduct. Next, you’ll be telling us that they’ve analyzed all of the contents, but didn’t discover any glue or epoxy (which is a lot like insisting that the tests they ran established the presence of oxygen and hydrogen, but they didn’t find any water at all). If you have a valid case, then you should make it — right now you’re just sputtering on all fours like an ill-bred hound being prevented from chasing bats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEn3cc9VBYQ&feature=player_detailpage
this information is from the scientists who performed tests on the artifact.
we are doing tests now concerning superconductivity.
larry
Why do you people always expect that You-tube should replace an actual case-file? This qualifies (barely) as information, but it hardly makes your case worth examining. And it most definitely doesn’t justify the price-tag you guys have affixed to this “artifact”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL8lRBryGco&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZF3BfDNAvs
bob telling story
Seeing is believing, bob’s metal is not the real thing I am an engineer and i v seen that done when i was an apprentice tool maker.
bob the b u ll shiter
you havnt seen that done anywhere. if you had there would aluminum objects all over that have the stucture the artifact bob recovered has. i would say your engine ran off the track damian..grin. with your extensive scientific background. oh wait you dont have any scientific background. that we have on staff. thanks for your input. please make one and send to me.
larry
Do you need a scientific background to work with machinery that alter’s metal? Clearly your at the height of your scientific career and understand the universe completely, or atleast enough to dispute anyone who opposes you. Get over it, leave your basement, and pay your mother rent!
It is a by-product of the propulsion systems on an alien air ship . Many reports are available from eye witnesses of molten slag like material dropping from these craft . I have seen YouTube videos of it happening live . I believe it is a similar process that we use in Nuclear Power Stations and the waste is also similar . What did Bob die from , Cancer ??????
unusual car accident. ran off road..no one near car or witness accident.
Ean, Larry burned you pretty bad.My guess is that your not going to admit Larry C. has any point,at all.If you at least admitted that you may have not covered all the bases you would gain my respect. Thomas(seeker of truth)
The first skeptic was my buddy Jeff who labeled the UFOs in my photo “flying ducks.” So I went back to the same spot and photographed birds and planes and after blowing them up in my own enlarger I was convinced the objects were nothing from this world. That was July 1 1990. This past July 4 2011 the San Diego Union Tribune celebrated the 21st anniversary of the day I accidentally photographed ten daylight UFOs hovering over the San Diego River Valley in Santa Ysabel California. It was my fourth front page feature. One of the objects provided a key that unlocked the UFO and Nazca Line mysteries as seen on my non-profit website and Youtube video.
The Los Angeles Times and CBS News labeled the evidence “UNSETTLING” Google my name or “Inaja UFO Photo” This is one UFO story that is Skeptic Proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbszqFRYaVY
the bob white solved has a few holes in it to
please give me the real message what is ufo and were is thos habitat sent me by my email
stanton frieman said it best about so called espert debunkers,.,
l. “What the public doesn’t know, we are not going to tell them.”
hence no real research on the story of the bob white artifact in this magizine.
2.” Don’t bother us with the facts, our minds are made up.”
No facts where use in the story at all. It is structly conjecture and personal opinion.
3. “If we can’t attack the data, we will attack the people; it is much easier. ”
Calling Bob White a liar and saying he was using industrial waste as the UFO object. This is a total lie,.
4. “Do one’s research by proclamation, rather than investigation. It is much easier and most people won’t know the difference.”
The expert used his opinion of a internet photo to MAKE all of his proclamitons WITH NO HANDS ON RESEARCH AT ALL. DAM poor expert and hardly credibly as any kind of true investigation.
And you expect an “internet photo” is sufficient to make your case — oh, sorry: a You-tube video. You’re now up there with singing chipmunks, so who’s the most irresponsible? More importantly, who’s paying for the Los Alamos tests that you’ve put such confidence in?
these are not pieces from outer space. they are rocks from an alternate dimension
I Want to know the reality of the aliean from where i can get all the information about alien and i want to do research in axology bcoz in my oppinion nothing is impossible in this world n i just want to take reality infront of this world but i want a small pletform a small information about this matter i know many person will laugh on me dat i dont know anything about this metter but its my dream i will fulfil it plz help me plz give me guidence about this metter pllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……………………
this is a bull sh**
WOW! How funny is that? Baffled scientist for years, placed in a museum, for sale ten million, considered as a hard evidence, and one of UFO hunters great mystery. this is a piece of metal shards from a metal foundry. This is not rocket science guys. They will throw a pipe wrench in everything wont they. You will all find out this year the real origins of humans.
so whats your degree in gator..you know your science background for this indepth analisis of a piece of metal that has been to 16 different labs now with no explanation of origin or how it was made with the properties identified in it so far.
great work gator..
larry.
https://www.facebook.com/UFOHARDEVIDENCELLC
WOW! Arrogant and full of contempt… You don’t need a degree in BS to identify it when it’s being shoveled out in front of you.
ive seen ufo`s before and theres no way anyone can convince me,what i saw was from this earth. seeing is beleiving.
Great comments. Every one got the idea. The object is an art created from a foundry or the claimed alien object. If you weighed it as scrap ore there’s little value. If you weighed based on the finder’s value…it is a value of the other’s belief. The value of other’s belief is worth enough to sustain life for a certain time while the foundry’s value is worth forgetting. It is like hiring learned men to devalue thoughts or sight evidence which exists but unproved. Anyways, all learned men in a science taught by current books can not explain unknown facts that exist. We own our yard, they own their backyard, and we never look up and learn – men still can’t see the borders of the air and the rights of the unfathomable dark skies. To see the limit of a knowledge is to cease to know the undiscovered.
This is a great article!
its very nice to know that such an “anomaly” can be a somewhat common by product at least within a type of industrial production.
very important for sure, but I would have reservations of claims that this case is solved just based on the evidence presented.
I need to research the original claims, and any analysis of materials, to review if epoxy and byproducts from heating epoxy were found/reported in Bob Whites artifact before I would write this off as just industrial trash that happened to be at the same area of a ufo sighting.
my thoughts are that a ufo possibly could produce a similar morphological material of similar elemental content,
seeming plasma activity in some ufo’s, could easily provide an energy source for the production of molten metals/compounds/gases.
Bob White claimed that he watched the object glowing, fall to the ground where he met the the object still glowing hot, upon cooling he collected the material.
so basically, this article essentially claims that Bob White is either a hoaxer or a scammer, (he is apparently trying to sell the artifact), or he is embellishing the story in some way, even if he really did see a ufo in the same area.
or,
he THOUGHT he collected an object, but that just happened to be industrial trash, in an area where he did see a ufo drop an object, but got the objects confused upon one of them cooling. that scenario seems about as far fetched to me as you could get, to have two products that look similiar, somehow show up in the same area.
I think we would need to consider different ways that metals might be melted and projected, I am sure that more than one way to blast metal in liquid or gas/plasma form exists potentially.
I am both a skeptic, and an initiate into various strange natural and possibly paranormal events…
so I get sucked into both “camps” wanting to believe because I have seen my own amazing events transpire, but also not wanting to believe BULLSHIT because it wastes my time researching events , some of which may have a deep impact in my life.
I do enjoy a good hoax dont get me wrong, especially humorous ones that make experts, or so called experts look sloppy.
in that manner, a hoax does provide an important function into exploration of claims that people make.
either Bob White had access to one of these grinding stone by products and came up with the story with a little diligence to reverse craft his experience,
or he is telling the truth to a degree.
either there was no ufo, and he possibly didnt even drive to the area with the object, and just made the story up wholesale,
or there was a ufo sighted, and that helped lead to giving him an idea of what to do with his grinding stone,
or there was a ufo, it did drop an object, but not the one he picked up,
or, there was a ufo, it dropped an object, that he recognized because it was a source of light, that he then watched cool down, and took possession of.
he should sell slices from a 1/8 slice taken from a higher corner…
so that the total profile of the product is viewable from oneside
and so that enough people have access to samples to send to various different areas of research.
of course, not finding evidence of epoxy/industrial glue or other compounds, wouldnt rule it out of being product of man/or a product of another intelligence, just as if there were found to be epoxy/industrial compounds,
we can make a guess for or against, but not with this just this new bit of evidence added to this case.
it is VERY interesting though, and does give another line of conjecture to consider, and one that just might be testable in more than one line of analysis
dont you think after 14 labs have tested this thing they would have found epoxy resin. they didnt. and they wont.
as far as this artical being so great it was flat was bs from word one.
no eye witness tests or even bothering to contact anyone involved in the research.
total bunch of absolute on you arse at the computor conjecture cliff.
you want to do tests on the object you need to contact the person doing the reasearch. some hands on research is more reliable than conjecture from the computor room at the office..y9ou might contact one or two of thescientists who have worked on it..you know DO SOME KIND OF ACTUAL DIGGING for the story..
there are 34 elements identified in the artifact now. not one of them is glue, epoxy or otherwise..materials research scientist have stated on record it is not from this neighborhood. we know it was outside of earths atmosphere not to mention a hell of alot more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EEn3cc9VBYQ
since bob was playing music, acting in tv and movies not to much time to look for alien artifacts in the slag pile..
i have said this more than once and i wiill say it again. SHOW ME A PIECE OF ALUMINUM that has the characturistics of the bob white artifact. when you can do that you got something. i can show you iron ones all day. you aint going to find on aluminum one on this planet..
larry cekander
ufohardevidence/llc
Yeah — not a whole lot of aluminum in this part of the galaxy, is there?
i remember the original story, the man had witnessed the ufo hovering. It shot off into the sky spitting the slagg behind, it seemed to be a by-product of the propulsion the machine had… it still seems primitive to some of the ways these things get around. I’d say our way of getting to the moon is even more primitive.
will all you believers please catch the next ufo off the planet and go fucking home !
https://www.facebook.com/UFOHARDEVIDENCELLC
Theirs a fish thats alomst see trough,transparent and when u shine a little light on it its becomes colour full and dreamlike,all the colours of the rainbow are going through this fish,pulsating pumping and flowing like yuve never seen before..this fish live about 4 miles down in the depths of somewhere like to mariana trench….and nobody believes a word of it ….it sounds made up ….and then one day sombody build a small sub capable on diving to such depths and takes a fucking vidoe camra with them and hay presto every body knows it to be fact now….wow…what a discovery ….maybe one day sombody will bild a space craft that can travel out of our solar system and take a camcorder with them and …well i think you get the jist of what im trying to moorons!
I do have to agree it looks an awful lot like a stalagmite. But that’s as far as I’m willing to go. It doesn’t really look like the stalagmite examples included in the article, although it bears some resemblance to figure C.
My questions are:
-Why can’t anyone find a picture of an aluminum stalagmite that looks like the Bob White object?
-How could all these experts and top labs miss it being a simple industrial wasteproduct, and why would they all say it was highly anomalous and claim it everything from a superconductor to a polycarbonate, to something engineered through nanotechnology?
-Why did NASA claim the Bob White Object was a meteorite? And why were other experts and labs actively engaged in an effort to deceive Bob White and anyone else who was curious about what this object might be?
aluminum will not form in that shape in an oxygen envirorment…just that simple..
thats why no one can show one from our little blue world. the expert in this artical dont no dipcuss about aluminum and it shows..
why did the best government lab in the world “los alamos” call the object an unknown artifact of unknown origin..im pretty sure they would recognize slag as would new mexico mines and minerals materials lab.
they did no research and claim they know the answers to the question..sounds like a first grader counting to ten using fingers and toes to get there..
what this thing is or was is anyones guess but it didnt fall off the beer truck and form under some grinding wheel of foundry pour…
heres some more misinformation from the so called expert.
Ean Harrison says:
October 13, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Actually the mystery was solved in 1985 when Mr. White’s story was being circulated. Any foundryman could immediately identify the object when shown a photo.
that never happened at all.. the first release of ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THE ARTIFACT WAS IN 1996 NOT 1985.
again more craker jack detective work by mr harrison and sceptic rag a zine..
https://www.facebook.com/UFOHARDEVIDENCELLC
I don’t know much about metalwork, but the explanation given here does sound… odd. The Bob White Object looks like it was formed under high heat. It hardly looks anything like glued together “shavings” like the other figures. I am a skeptic by nature, but something seems amiss here. Especially NASA’s meteor claims. I can’t believe NASA engineers wouldn’t recognize metal shavings. That level of incompetence seems to me to be more inexplicable than this object being something unusual.
its was formed under high pressure, in a vacuum in a molten condition, ejected into extreme cold. that is the only way to get feathered or chad layering in aluminum with sharp edges. test have conclude uncontrolled cooling took place. scientist have said on record both in writting and on tv this metal is not randomly formed. it was made for a specific purpose. it has been exposed to solar radiation outside of earths atmosphere, MIT confirmed this. the metal produces EMF reading that can be seen and read on any store bought meter. also confirmed. it has exposed dental film in a precise pattern and radiation testing in san diego proved that it has low level gama radiation.
Research Scientist David Lamb, expert in physics and material science.
Also works at a major US university. Findings were achieved using
X-Ray Diffraction Analysis: The artifact showed an unique “amorphous peak
and is a polycrystalline semiconductor”. To his knowledge this type of material
is not found anywhere on Earth. Also there is silver concentration of 4.3%,
here on Earth silver is used in this form by experimental scientist as a
catalyst for a superconductor.
http://ufoevidence.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=comments&action=display&num=1261494571
Bubble Chamber tests where performed in San Diego which detected neutron radiation, gamma and Xray’s from the object. The neutron radiation can only come from a nuclear reactor or exposure to intense solar radiation. We know the object has been outside of our atmosphere because of these findings.
We know the object has a very unusual amorphous peak and is a polychristilline semi-condutor. To our knowledge this type of material is not found anywhere on earth.
There is a silver content of 4.3% that was detected during xray defraction tests done in Springfield Missouri in 2009. Silver is used a catalyst for a supercondutor. Superconductivity experiments where in their infancy in 1985 when this object was recovered.
thats just some of the things NOT MENTIONED IN THE SKEPTIC STORY BECAUSE NO ONE BOTHERED TO CALL US to get any information on the object in question or do any kind of INVESTIGATION into the ongoing research of the metal.
to say the very least the story written by mr harrison is poorly researched with no actual knowledge of the object since he has never seen held or talked to anyone about from our end and i know that because im the only one doing anything with the testing and information.
very bad trying to fit a square peg into a round hole..it wont fit because the origin of the object cant be detected on our little planet.
if your going to supposedly solve and issue its a GOOD IDEA TO INVESTIGATE IT FIRST..NO ONE FROM THIS ORGANIZATION DID THAT.
larry cekander.
http://ufoevidence.conforums.com/index.cgi
This proves nothing… This could be the material produced by a process within a craft, ufo etc. Open your minds… They have been here for hundreds of thousands of years.
I guess that settles it, then. It’s the antichrist… nothing else it could be. Damn. Now we have to go blow up Jerusalem. Thanks a lot, space guys. I really liked that city, too…
Time will tell!!! I am sceptical of sceptics! So experts are baffled!! My experience of experts is that they baffle everyone with science including themselves while overlooking the obvious simple answer.