Skeptic » eSkeptic » October 12, 2011

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See Steven Pinker on October 23rd

The Better Angels of Our Nature:
Why Violence has Declined

Sunday, October 23, 2011 at 2 pm

FACED WITH THE CEASELESS STREAM OF NEWS about war, crime, and terrorism, one could easily think we live in the most violent age ever seen. Yet as the Harvard University psychologist and New York Times bestselling author Steven Pinker shows in this startling and engaging new work, just the opposite is true: violence has been diminishing for millennia and we may be living in the most peaceful time in our species’ existence. For most of history, war, slavery, infanticide, child abuse, assassinations, pogroms, gruesome punishments, deadly quarrels, and genocide were ordinary features of life. But today, Pinker shows all these forms of violence have dwindled and are widely condemned. How has this happened? Find out at the lecture!…


Tickets are $10 Skeptics Society members/Caltech/JPL community; $15 everyone else. Tickets may be purchased in advance through the Caltech ticket office at 1-626-395-4652 or at the door. Ordering tickets ahead of time is strongly recommended. The Caltech ticket office asks that you do not leave a message. Instead call between 12:00 and 5:00 Monday through Friday.

Science Symposium Now on DVD

Our 2011 Science Symposium was a rare opportunity to hear four of the world’s leading Skeptics discuss their experiences fighting irrationality and promoting science, and what you could do to help! Speakers included: Dr. Michael Shermer, James “The Amazing” Randi and special guests: Bill Nye the Science Guy® and Mr. Deity (Brian Keith Dalton).

Missed the Symposium? Get the Lectures on DVD!

For those of you who could not make it to the Symposium earlier this year, you can now purchase all the lectures on DVD:

  1. The Believing Brain, by Michael Shermer
  2. On Science Religion & Morality, by Michael Shermer
  3. The Future of Science, Technology, and Education, by Bill Nye and James Randi
  4. The Belief Changing Kit, a 3-DVD Set with Audience Q&A
    with Bill Nye, James Randi, Brian Dalton, and Donald Prothero
  5. Mr. Deity and Friends, with Brian Keith Dalton
Watch the Symposium Q&A for free!

Five leading skeptics (Bill Nye, James Randi, Donald Prothero, Brian Dalton, and Michael Shermer) met at Caltech during the Skeptics Society’s Science Symposium to discuss their experiences communicating science to the public. Young audience members took advantage of these experts to ask excellent questions. This video includes one of the hottest topics in the skeptical community today: What is the most effective approach for educating the public and promoting skepticism, science, and critical thinking skills—confrontation, or a more gentle and respectful approach?

READ MORE, order the lectures on DVD, and watch the free Q&A video


The Making of Ankylosaur Attack!

With the release of his new dinosaur storybook, Ankylosaur Attack!, many younger scientists (especially those aged four to eight) are asking Daniel, “How did you make these pictures look so real?” He’ll discuss that further at the Vancouver International Writers Festival next week, but gives Skepticblog readers a first glimpse behind the scenes.



Jennifer Hancock
SKEPTICALITY: Interview with
Jennifer Hancock

This week on Skepticality, Derek sits down with Jennifer Hancock to discuss her newest book, Jen Hancock’s Handy Humanism Handbook. In this work, Jen attempts to give people a quick, easy, book which describes the philosophy of Humanism and how it relates to culture and personal happiness.



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Did this mysterious artifact actually fall from a UFO as Bob White claimed?

In this week’s eSkeptic, Skeptic co-founder Pat Linse is contacted by an expert who has the expertise to solve the mystery of Bob White’s UFO artifact—an object which has long baffled both the public and the scientists who examined it. This article appeared in Skeptic magazine volume 16, number 3 (2011).

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Bob White’s Great UFO
Artifact Mystery—Solved!
(Sometimes All it Takes is Finding the Right Expert.)

by Pat Linse, with Ean Harrison

Apsychic was taking phone calls on a late night radio show. His next caller was clearly upset—you could hear the fear in his voice. “I think I might be possessed” he confessed. “When I drive at night the street lights often turn off as I approach. I’m afraid it might be a warning that something terrible is about to happen.” The psychic tried to reassure him, “You definitely have some kind of extraordinary power, but it’s not necessarily negative. The lights that go out could mean that one phase of your life is over and you are about to enter a new one…”

As the psychic droned on about focusing on the positive and seeking out new opportunities, the phone lines lit up at the radio station. Dozens of people were trying to get through to offer an explantation for the ominous behavior of the street lights. They were all from one specific profession, but they were not scientists or psychologists.

The psychic’s explanation to the frightened man was suddenly cut off and a new voice came on the air. “We would like to let our listeners know that our phone lines have been jammed by people who have a very straightforward explanation for the caller’s problem. They are auto mechanics and they are all suggesting that the caller have his headlights adjusted. If headlights are aimed too high they trigger the daylight sensor on streetlights and turn them off. It’s a common problem.”

Luckily for the caller, the right experts were listening to provide a solution. Those familiar with skeptical literature are aware of James Randi’s tireless effort to point out that many supposed paranormal mysteries that have stumped scientists can be solved by the expertise of magicians.

Now another mystery has been solved with information provided by the right expert. The solution calls to mind Michael Shermer’s frequent admonition, “Before you say something is out of this world, make sure it isn’t of this world.”

Bob White’s UFO Artifact

The late Bob White’s mysterious object (see photo above) is touted on the internet as hard evidence for the existence of UFOs: “This isn’t the smoking gun—this is the bullet!!!!” And it has been included on or near the top of UFO “best evidence” lists.1, 2 In 1985, according to White’s sworn deposition, he was napping as he and a companion drove west through the desolate country between Grand Junction, CO and the Utah border. After 2 or 3 in the morning White’s friend woke him for a second time—the odd light they’d noticed before in the sky seemed to be getting bigger. White recalled:

[The light] was about the size of a full harvest moon… As we got closer, it grew larger… When we were a few hundred yards from it, I turned off the ignition and we coasted up close to it… It was huge, the size of a very big barn. I got out of the car…for a better look. For some unknown reason, Jan turned on the headlights, and this light went up in the sky as fast as my eyes could follow it… Then I saw another small light, bright orange with a tinge of yellow, white, and blue falling from it… I climbed the incline and went over to where I thought it might have hit. I found a groove in the ground about 18 inches deep and 9 inches wide. I followed the groove and there it lay… it was still glowing.3

White stashed the object in his trunk, and fearing that the story would harm his entertainment career, said nothing about it until after he retired.

From 1996 to his death in 2009, the now retired Bob White devoted himself to promoting his artifact as a piece of hard evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial engineering. His quest was not without its frustrations—his artifact, if genuine, should have been one of the greatest discoveries of all time—but he did manage to attract some media attention. He gave interviews, spoke at UFO conventions, wrote a book titled UFO Hard Evidence (Galde Press 2004), set up a small museum to house his artifact (where he is said to have offered the object for sale for ten million dollars), and was featured on a number of TV shows.

Unsolved Mysteries

Production budgets of shows like the History Channel’s UFO Hunters, Unsolved Mysteries, and Jane Goldman Investigates (a series produced in the UK) allowed him to present the object to scientists for testing, with mixed results. While it was easily established to be made of aluminum, it had no apparent working parts. UFO enthusiasts focused on proving its extraterrestrial origin by suggesting the composition of the metal matched nothing on earth. They compared isotope ratios in the object to those of meteors, tried to establish that it emitted unusual radioactivity, or focused on inclusions and trace elements in the metal. No one seemed to wonder why a supposedly sophisticated piece of alien technology looked like it had been unceremoniously hacked off at one end.


A foundry standgrinder (click image to enlarge). (A) is the grinding wheel composed of abrasive and adhesive. (B) is where the casting rests. The stalagmites form inside the grinding wheel guard (C) just behind the two large bolt heads.

Not many large stalagmites exist as souvenirs anymore because the metal is now so valuable that it is collected and sold for scrap. There is also a concerted effort to keep the grinding guards clean and remove the stalagmites before they grow so large that they break off and destroy the grinder by becoming jammed between the guard and wheel. It is possible that Bob White’s artifact was not identified sooner because few old foundries remain which use the antiquated grinding equipment that produces them. Foundry work in the U.S. has been steadily outsourced to developing nations such as Mexico, China, and India.

Expertise to the Rescue

Our expert Ean Harrison is a retired steel foundry quality control supervisor who worked in the Seattle area. Not only can he explain the origin of Bob White’s strange object, he once owned several of them and used them as garden ornaments. Harrison writes:

The object in question is made of accreted grinding residue. It forms in a manner similar to a common stalagmite when metal castings are “cleaned” on large stationary grinders. Rough castings need to have the parting line fins and gates smoothed to facilitate machining and reduce tool breakage. A typical stationary grinder in a foundry cleaning room used to hand clean castings up to 40 pounds may have a composite wheel 3 feet in diameter and 4 inches wide or larger. The casting is placed on a work guard just like the small grinder found in home workshops, and the piece is fed against the surface of the wheel, grinding off parting line fins, weld repairs, and gate bosses. The grinding dust is spewed downward into the wheel guard at a temperature near the melting point of the parent metal. When the metal dust and grinding wheel abrasive hit the bottom of the guard, the melted epoxy wheel binder glues the mixture together. Over time a stalagmite is slowly created from the bottom up, that fuses the parent metals into the characteristic form. Depending on the size of the machine, a stalagmite can easily grow to a length of 2 feet or more. Also, depending on the castings being ground, the composition of the stalagmite could be an exotic mix of stainless steel, manganese, mild steel, aluminum—in other words, a very puzzling metallurgical mix all combined in a seemingly impossible compound. But in reality it is merely a product of the melted grinding wheel binder. eventually the stalagmite grows high enough to block the opening at the base of the grinding guard. The housing must be opened, the stalagmite broken off, thrown away, recycled, used as a yard ornament, or reported as something tossed out of a UFO.

It is unfortunate so many people have been deceived into thinking an industrial waste product is concrete evidence for a UFO. But I suppose the possibility remains that an alien sailing along in a UFO was processing castings on a stationary grinder and tossed the stalagmite down at Mr. White—but one would wonder why they are still using such primitive technology.END

foundry stalagmites

One and two-horned steel stalagmites, each about 4 inches (10 cm) high. Foundry stalagmites come in many shapes and textures—from soft soggy oil-oozing blobs to elegant feathered needles. (A) and (B) (above) are fairly typical steel stalagmites with short scales and a coarse grainy texture. (Click image to enlarge)

custom-made stalagmite

Our custom-made two-horned carbide steel stalagmite exhibits long layered scales and a fine texture. An expert grinder operator took a look at a photo of the Bob White artifact and produced this otherworldly object (C) for Skeptic magazine by using an extra fast, extra hot grind of carbide steel to keep the metal and adhesive mix near the metal’s melting point. (Click image to enlarge)


Our thanks to: B.J. Mayclin of Roemer Electric Steel Foundry, Longview, WA, for supplying stalagmites (A) and (B); and to Michael Gilmore and Pat Mason for researching stalagmite production at Los Angeles area metal shops; and to Francisco Rosales for creating stalagmite (C) for this article.

Except for the top photo in this article (Bob White’s artifact), all photos were taken by Michael Gilmore, David Patton and Ean Harrison.

About the Authors

PAT LINSE is an award winning illustrator who specialized in film industry art before becoming one of the founders of the Skeptics Society, Skeptic magazine, and the creator of Junior Skeptic magazine. As Skeptic magazine’s Art Director, she has created many illustrations for both Skeptic and Junior Skeptic. She is co-editor, along with Michael Shermer, of the The Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience.

EAN HARRISON is currently retired and dedicates his time to public service, organizing programs for the Cowlitz chapter of The National Institute for Mental Illness. A member of The Cowlitz County Regional Support Network Advisory Board, Harrison is currently helping establish a Cowlitz County Youth Suicide Prevention Program, and designing art therapy experiential exercises for psychotherapy interventions for people suffering from addiction and substance abuse. He holds B.A. in Environmental Design from the University of Washington. Harrison has published peer reviewed research in Environment and Behavior magazine with Phillip Thiel and Richard Alden. Foundry specialization and certification include: Quality Control Supervisor, Jarrell Ash Mass Spectrographic Analysis, Ultrasonic Analysis of Steel Castings, Metallurgy, Welding Inspection and Quality Assurance, Cleaning Room Operations, and Analysis and Reduction of Casting Defects.

Skeptical perspectives on pseudoscience and skepticism…
cover The Skeptic Encyclopedia of Pseudoscience
Michael Shermer, Pat Linse, Eds.

This in-depth Encyclopedia is an absolute must-have for every skeptic’s library, covering almost every pseudoscience from A—Z. Included are case studies, historical documents and a pro and con debate section on a number of topics. This was published as a library reference book. Save over $50.00 off the price charged to libraries! Order the book.

cover Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud
by Robert L. Park

This classic is on our top ten list of recommended critical thinking books. Physicist Park expertly analyzes cold fusion, perpetual motion machines, free energy claims, and how well-meaning scientists can go down the wrong road through self-deception.
Order the book.

cover The Skeptic’s Dictionary
by Robert Carroll

The subtitle of this book sums it up nicely: a collection of strange beliefs, amusing deceptions and dangerous delusions. Based on Carroll’s website (, this dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. Another must-have for every skeptic’s library. Order the book.

cover Believing In Magic: The Psychology of Superstition
by Stuart A. Vyse

This book examines current behavioral research which suggests that everyday superstitions are the natural result of well-understood psychological processes. Vyse entertainingly demonstrates how complex and paradoxical human behaviors can be understood through science. This books is a significant contribution to the skeptical literature. Order the book.



  1. DarkPrinc says:

    Rewriting my article is very low of you.

    this was solved

    so it’s not news…
    at least some recognition …

    • Ean Harrison says:

      Actually the mystery was solved in 1985 when Mr. White’s story was being circulated. Any foundryman could immediately identify the object when shown a photo. It was great entertainment back then, (Bob White was a talented entertainer), but the entertainment ended when the artifact was put up for sale. Like you said, it really isn’t new information, but Pat Linse has created a wonderful story to catch the publics’ attention by integrating entertainment with factual information. I’m sure anyone considering plunking down several million dollars for the object is very grateful for Pat’s article as well as to you, if they would see your terrific photos. I hope you will continue exposing the myth in the interest of public harm reduction.

      • Russel Callaghan says:

        The artifact often reminded me of burned timber. We never really published the story in UK UFO Magazine or UFO DATA of which I was the editor, it was all about trying to sell to the highest bidder.

        Simple science proves what it is, simple people don’t want to know what it is.


    • Nick says:

      Well the case you present is very weak.

      A steel worker can make something that looks similar to the bob white artifact.

      Thats it?! no tests, no professionals, no scientists, none of your own money spent to research.

      Not a convincing argument.

      (have you no quality to your journalism?)

      • james germiquet says:

        Is it possible an airplane part could grind such an object while flying and eventually it could fall off…. or a ufo for that matter… The person said the object made a skid mark and was still glowing … I think this could be a very logical possibility.

        • kevin smith says:

          OK, I’m getting sick and tired of telling people what this really is, but no one seems to be interested. This is the product of “Thermal Spray Technology” where metal powders are used to coat products such as John Deere combine parts, Harley Davidson shifter forks etc, or anything desiring a longer life. We also do classified military projects and parts for the oil and gas industry. The techniques are in powder form and the arc process uses various metal wires. In any case, the metal is heated to a molten matter and sprayed at mach III to Mach V onto the product. We use many different metals from Aluminum to Chromium, which the over spray collects into stalagmites on the surface of the intake hood behind the product. We have three different processes called “Plasma”, “Arc”, and HVOF. We use either Hydrogen or Helium for fuel, and I have many of these things and some are cool looking. Google “Thermal Spray Technology” to see what I’m talking about. Tell these bull shitters they are chasing rainbows, hey, I’ve seen an interstellar vehicle, and this does nothing for us believers. They want to keep the mystery going to get their 15 minutes, well, times up!

      • Roger says:

        I agree it looks similar but that’s about it

    • jodyclark says:

      So you are calling Mr. White a liar?Maybe somebody threw it out of an airplane & it got hot from the air passing over it as it fell at an angle and slid across the ground.Why would the man make up a story like that. Oh I know , the same reason you made yours up, attention & recognition . Sorry but that’s my opinion. Have a nice day.

  2. Paul Little says:

    I was fascinated by the opening section of the feature article here. It repeats a common misconception about the streetlight phenomenon described by the caller. Even if the headlights were so outrageously misalaigned as to pointing straight up, they would not trip the sensor on the top of the streetlight. Headlights at that distance just aren’t bright enough, or hitting the sensor at the right angle.

    The actual explanation has to do with the behaviour of sodium vapour lights commonly used in streetlights, and confirmation bias. Sodium vapour lights that overheat can fail in an explosively spectacular fashion. For this reason, they are fitted with an automatically resetting thermal circuit breaker. If the light overheats, the breaker trips, then resets when the bulb has cooled enough to be safe. As the light bulb ages, it burns less efficiently, and heats up faster, tripping the breaker more frequently. A bulb in the last stages of its life can go through this cycle every several minutes. Confirmation bias does the rest. The listener believed it was significant when a few bulbs shut off as he approached, but that it was insignificant that thousands more did not.

    And I am not even an expert in streetlights.

    • james germiquet says:

      I understand the car lights activiating street lights, but my wife and I have experienced this phenomena on many occasions, each time exactly as we pass under the street light, while we were “walking” through our neighborhood. Different lights at different times and yet the phenomena of the timing just as we passed under them was the same.

  3. Pat Linse says:

    I agree that the caller’s real problem could have been at least in part confirmation bias–perhaps the most common explantation for those who suppose they might have psychic power. However the radio show mentioned took place around 35-40 years ago, before sodium vapor lamps were in wide use. So the streetlights were most likely something common in the 60s.

  4. Paul Little says:

    35-40 years ago, the streetlights could still have been Sodium Vapour. Prior to that, they might have been Mercury Vapour, which went into service as much as 50-60 years ago, and, under some conditions, exhibit a similar cycling behaviour.

  5. larry cekander says:

    your expert on on steel dont know squat..dont you think after 12 labs have had this object tested from one end to the other they WOULD KNOW GRINDINGS FROM A CUT OFF WHEEL biggest bunch of BULL I HAVE EVER READ..
    There isnt a pile of shavings under a grinding wheel with a vickers hardness scale of over 70.. no why…scientists have stated that this metal was manufactured for a specific purpose..its not random.
    steel will form hard as it welds itself to each partical..aluminum will not do that in an oxygen enviroment in a layered sharp edge design the bob white artifact has.
    your explanation hardly holds water and has been used more than to the people who have hands on experience with this artifact..then maybe you could publish a story that is correct.
    larry cekander

  6. Dr. Robert H. Gibbons says:

    I was the Executive Director of the Museum of the Unexplained and compiled the techical reports for Bob White’s book UFO HARD EVIDENCE. I did the tests on Bob’s object with dental x-ray film that showed the object emitted two distinct spots of radiation that exposed the x-ray film. Without going into too much detail, I urge everyone interested in the truth about Bob’s object to read the four references at the end of the article. In reference 1 is the NIDS analysis on Bob’s object done at New Mexico Tech; our electromagnetic tests done on Bob’s object; Test Results on Bob White’s Object compiled by my brother Dr. James Gibbons and myself from the New Mexico data and Scripps data; and photos of Bob’s object and the CIC “Flying Saucer from Denmark” object. Reference 2 links to Bob’s conforums website which has photos of the bottom of the object showing what Los Alamos National Laboratory cut and what they gave Bob back; results of the isotope abundance ratio tests done at Scripps in La Jolla, CA; Bubble Chamber test data done in San Diego, CA in November, 2006; and a link to scientist David Lamb’s interview on the UFO HUNTERS where he discusses the aluminum properties of Bob’s object. Reference 3 links to the Above Top Secret website which then links to the conforums website mentioned above. Reference 4 links to Bob’s sworn statement and the results of his first polygraph test. Looking around this website shows additional material about Bob’s object.

  7. Brian s. says:

    Are you kidding me? The more I pay attention to skeptics on this matter the more they persuade me to believe aliens are actually present here. This blog is using Bill Nye as a reference? Bill fucking Nye? Bill Nye is looking for a way to cash in on his science background because he didn’t make it in stand up comedy… it….true story. Seth From Seti who is also a major leading skeptic in this issue states in all of his lechtures that while he doesn’t believe aliens are visiting he believes in robot human hybrids. Whos fucking crazy? These skeptic bandwagon jumpers that are trying to cash in.

    • kevin smith says:

      Dude, I’ve been telling these people what this thing is all week and no one wants to hear it. I replied to someone else on this page, so if you find it, read it, and that’s what it is, it’s called “Thermal Spray Technology”. I see these things every day, it’s time to put this thing to bed. I do believe we are not alone, but this is just plain nonsense, thanks, Kevin

  8. all infected says:

    I never believed in UFOs and extraterrestrials until I visited Now I am a true beliver!

    • Steve says:

      Lmao are you serious? Linking to a “jesus saves” website. Nice try buddy. Not falling for your dogmatic, fear-based, highly hypocritical group of “believers” anymore. I used to be a christian, but have learned to become more wise than that, and have a more open mind. One that believes ALL religions have some elements of truth, and its up to us to piece it all together and find our own way.

      Good day sir.

    • Scooter says:

      #8 is full of it
      This website no longer exists. Not a big surprise considering the source.

  9. Jim Leishman says:

    I find it amazing that with all the growing evidence related to UFO’s, Videos in broad daylight as well at night, abductions, cattle mutilations and so on that anyone who bothered to do just a little research could not fail to recognise something big and very real is going on here and has been for a very long time. Skeptics are either blinkered idiots or trying to cash in on ignorance, or are so afraid of the truth that they cling onto any explanation other than the truth.

  10. larry cekander says:

    if an aledged expert give an EXPERT opinion but doesnt qualify as any kind of expert someone will believe the poo poo and cah cah…sceptic puts out alot cah cah..
    mr Ean Harrison sure doesnt know the flow characteristics of aluminum. molten aluminum will never solidify in the manner the bob white object did in an oxygen rich atmosphere..all test say the the BWO object is a manufactured alloy but no one can identify the orgins or the use. just because steel or iron will layer aluminum will not. it always has rounded edges. end of debate

    • Ean Harrison says:

      Please read the article a little more carefully and you will understand that the aluminum grinding residue and the carbide/quartz cut-off or grinding wheel particulates are all combined during the foundry/manufacturing, grinding/cutting process with melted epoxy and fiberglass. Grinding wheels and cut-off wheels are baked with fiberglass reinforcing layers and epoxy to minimize the danger to operators if the wheels explode. Using knowledge of grinding wheel construction one will discover that the Bob White Artifact is very similar to the composition of common foundry grinding wheels, with the addition of aluminum. Think of the creation of stalgmites in caves which build up over time with vertical droplets of limestone in a water solution. The processes are functionally quite similar with corresponding shapes. Ean

  11. j. dixie dean says:

    they do exsist i saw one,but more possible they are from here,as the underneath had like gerders like you get on a ship,also had hatch with light but made no sound.

    • Mike says:

      There is no question that UFO’s exist. The big question is WHAT are they? Spaceships, dimentional ships, time ships or the US military experimenting with new technology? I too have seen a UFO when in the Army in 1978. About 50 of my company saw it in the sky. This was well before the USA had technology that could do what this UFO did. It was other-worldly and made an impact on my life.
      That is what happens, when you see a real UFO, your perceptions of the universe change forever.

      • James Carlson says:

        The same thing happens when you see “angels”. Unfortunately, the “fact” that someone saw an “angel” doesn’t cause that change of perception; what causes it is that someone saw what he THOUGHT was an angel. The experience of witnessing a UFO — in and of itself — is no different than that of witnessing a balloon caught in the breeze. The only difference is whether or not the observer believes he was looking at the transcendent yet oppressive vision of a craft capable of embodying the impossible, or merely a “puffed-out” bit of rubber trapped within the layered channels of air pressure and temperature. Being a witness to anything is a perception-based affair, and if you ignore the psychological underpinnings that are associated with it, you are essentially ignoring the greater part of the phenomenon. A “real UFO” isn’t necessary; you need more data to substantiate what may very well be your mistaken belief that you saw a “real UFO,” — and the number of witnesses is irrelevant. It’s easier to incite a riot within a peaceful crowd of “observers” when their numbers climb. It’s also easier to establish within a group an incorrect assumption, which is why the Supreme Court finds it problematic when various witnesses to an incident are allowed to discuss and compare their assessments with each other before identifying a guilty party. An accounting of an event that has been reached as the result of group consensus and dynamics is just as often error-prone as it is accurate, although admittedly, both terms are “relative” within the structures of the group itself. The point is, when trying to determine the truth inherent to any perception-based phenomenon, all bets are off. If you want to establish truth, you need something more than a couple of guys (or 50) willing to say, “I saw it; as a result, my perception of the universe has changed forever.”

  12. rubel says:

    My friend found a fist size crome metalic object out in the mts. It looks something like Mr. Whites object but crome or silver looking. Heavy for its size and its magnetic. I was wondering where I could send a picture. To determine what it could be.. I’ll be waiting for a reply. thank you

  13. larry cekander says:

    you can send one to [email protected]
    if its magnetic its unlikely its like what bob has as the artifact he recovered is aluminum with other exotic elements identified along with gamma beta and fast neutron readings from bubble chamber tests which where performed in san diego in 2006, emf readings, exposure of xray film and a polycrystiline amorphious peak not found in aluminum of the 80’s.
    that is a recent process but still very high end work.
    hardly slag from a foundry as this has been debunked by 12 labs including los alamos, scripts, new mexico tech, delta state, missouri state university, and all the other labs that have tested the artifact.
    that dont fly sir…i guess los alamos cant recognize powder from a grinding wheel.
    first thing you need to de is see the artifact then MAYBE you could comment on its structure and origin.

    • James Carlson says:

      Your insulting attitude ruins your case and suggests that you don’t really have one. I’d be willing to bet almost anything that Los Alamos didn’t conduct as thorough an investigation as your claims tend to insist. Their resources are a lot more expensive than anything you can afford — that’s why it’s a government-run laboratory. And since it is a government-run laboratory, I’ll bet they only did a cursory investigation of the object as opposed to a very thorough one, using all of the resources at their command. You people who tend to denigrate those holding opinions contrary to your own are pretty sickening. If you have a case, them make it. And instead of spouting off such pathetic rejoinders intended to establish that your knowledge, and your tests, and the absolute quality of the tests that you’ve run or that were run at your behest are so superior to anything else being asserted, then release those reports, and tell us who conducted them and who decided what tests should be done so they can be properly interviewed to determine the actual efficacy of your claims. You are rude, ill-disciplined, and irresponsible, and you expect those qualities to establish your case, instead of the facts that you’ve apparently decided not to present. Your audience right now doesn’t even know whether the substance you’re discussing was tested as to whether it’s powder from a grinding wheel or anything else, and yet you’ve suggested that those who carried out the scientific portion of this investigation would have been quite capable of doing so, while expecting that capability ALONE should make your case more viable than another’s. It’s a government-run lab, you arrogant, pompous bore, and that means it’s not only subject to error, it also means they only conduct the tests they’ve been instructed to conduct. Next, you’ll be telling us that they’ve analyzed all of the contents, but didn’t discover any glue or epoxy (which is a lot like insisting that the tests they ran established the presence of oxygen and hydrogen, but they didn’t find any water at all). If you have a valid case, then you should make it — right now you’re just sputtering on all fours like an ill-bred hound being prevented from chasing bats.

  14. larry cekander says:
    this information is from the scientists who performed tests on the artifact.
    we are doing tests now concerning superconductivity.

    • James Carlson says:

      Why do you people always expect that You-tube should replace an actual case-file? This qualifies (barely) as information, but it hardly makes your case worth examining. And it most definitely doesn’t justify the price-tag you guys have affixed to this “artifact”.

  15. damian says:

    Seeing is believing, bob’s metal is not the real thing I am an engineer and i v seen that done when i was an apprentice tool maker.
    bob the b u ll shiter

  16. larry cekander says:

    you havnt seen that done anywhere. if you had there would aluminum objects all over that have the stucture the artifact bob recovered has. i would say your engine ran off the track damian..grin. with your extensive scientific background. oh wait you dont have any scientific background. that we have on staff. thanks for your input. please make one and send to me.

    • Dakota says:

      Do you need a scientific background to work with machinery that alter’s metal? Clearly your at the height of your scientific career and understand the universe completely, or atleast enough to dispute anyone who opposes you. Get over it, leave your basement, and pay your mother rent!

  17. Believer says:

    It is a by-product of the propulsion systems on an alien air ship . Many reports are available from eye witnesses of molten slag like material dropping from these craft . I have seen YouTube videos of it happening live . I believe it is a similar process that we use in Nuclear Power Stations and the waste is also similar . What did Bob die from , Cancer ??????

  18. larry cekander says:

    unusual car accident. ran off one near car or witness accident.

  19. Thomas M says:

    Ean, Larry burned you pretty bad.My guess is that your not going to admit Larry C. has any point,at all.If you at least admitted that you may have not covered all the bases you would gain my respect. Thomas(seeker of truth)

  20. Mike Orrell says:

    The first skeptic was my buddy Jeff who labeled the UFOs in my photo “flying ducks.” So I went back to the same spot and photographed birds and planes and after blowing them up in my own enlarger I was convinced the objects were nothing from this world. That was July 1 1990. This past July 4 2011 the San Diego Union Tribune celebrated the 21st anniversary of the day I accidentally photographed ten daylight UFOs hovering over the San Diego River Valley in Santa Ysabel California. It was my fourth front page feature. One of the objects provided a key that unlocked the UFO and Nazca Line mysteries as seen on my non-profit website and Youtube video.

    The Los Angeles Times and CBS News labeled the evidence “UNSETTLING” Google my name or “Inaja UFO Photo” This is one UFO story that is Skeptic Proof.

  21. larry cekander says:

    the bob white solved has a few holes in it to

  22. asnake says:

    please give me the real message what is ufo and were is thos habitat sent me by my email

  23. larry cekander says:

    stanton frieman said it best about so called espert debunkers,.,

    l. “What the public doesn’t know, we are not going to tell them.”
    hence no real research on the story of the bob white artifact in this magizine.

    2.” Don’t bother us with the facts, our minds are made up.”

    No facts where use in the story at all. It is structly conjecture and personal opinion.

    3. “If we can’t attack the data, we will attack the people; it is much easier. ”

    Calling Bob White a liar and saying he was using industrial waste as the UFO object. This is a total lie,.

    4. “Do one’s research by proclamation, rather than investigation. It is much easier and most people won’t know the difference.”

    The expert used his opinion of a internet photo to MAKE all of his proclamitons WITH NO HANDS ON RESEARCH AT ALL. DAM poor expert and hardly credibly as any kind of true investigation.

    • James Carlson says:

      And you expect an “internet photo” is sufficient to make your case — oh, sorry: a You-tube video. You’re now up there with singing chipmunks, so who’s the most irresponsible? More importantly, who’s paying for the Los Alamos tests that you’ve put such confidence in?

  24. ironjew says:

    these are not pieces from outer space. they are rocks from an alternate dimension

  25. SAURABH JAIN says:

    I Want to know the reality of the aliean from where i can get all the information about alien and i want to do research in axology bcoz in my oppinion nothing is impossible in this world n i just want to take reality infront of this world but i want a small pletform a small information about this matter i know many person will laugh on me dat i dont know anything about this metter but its my dream i will fulfil it plz help me plz give me guidence about this metter pllllllzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……………………

  26. Bob Dylann Mikeal says:

    this is a bull sh**

  27. gator1 says:

    WOW! How funny is that? Baffled scientist for years, placed in a museum, for sale ten million, considered as a hard evidence, and one of UFO hunters great mystery. this is a piece of metal shards from a metal foundry. This is not rocket science guys. They will throw a pipe wrench in everything wont they. You will all find out this year the real origins of humans.

    • codygirl says:

      if all of you writers are making this up you are makeing a fool out of your selfs you cant trick someone who reads your coments its being a B.U.L.L.Y. SO THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE

  28. larry cekander says:

    so whats your degree in know your science background for this indepth analisis of a piece of metal that has been to 16 different labs now with no explanation of origin or how it was made with the properties identified in it so far.

    great work gator..


    • James Carlson says:

      WOW! Arrogant and full of contempt… You don’t need a degree in BS to identify it when it’s being shoveled out in front of you.

  29. ben haad says:

    ive seen ufo`s before and theres no way anyone can convince me,what i saw was from this earth. seeing is beleiving.

  30. YouKnowWhy says:

    Great comments. Every one got the idea. The object is an art created from a foundry or the claimed alien object. If you weighed it as scrap ore there’s little value. If you weighed based on the finder’s value…it is a value of the other’s belief. The value of other’s belief is worth enough to sustain life for a certain time while the foundry’s value is worth forgetting. It is like hiring learned men to devalue thoughts or sight evidence which exists but unproved. Anyways, all learned men in a science taught by current books can not explain unknown facts that exist. We own our yard, they own their backyard, and we never look up and learn – men still can’t see the borders of the air and the rights of the unfathomable dark skies. To see the limit of a knowledge is to cease to know the undiscovered.

  31. cliff says:

    This is a great article!

    its very nice to know that such an “anomaly” can be a somewhat common by product at least within a type of industrial production.
    very important for sure, but I would have reservations of claims that this case is solved just based on the evidence presented.

    I need to research the original claims, and any analysis of materials, to review if epoxy and byproducts from heating epoxy were found/reported in Bob Whites artifact before I would write this off as just industrial trash that happened to be at the same area of a ufo sighting.

    my thoughts are that a ufo possibly could produce a similar morphological material of similar elemental content,

    seeming plasma activity in some ufo’s, could easily provide an energy source for the production of molten metals/compounds/gases.

    Bob White claimed that he watched the object glowing, fall to the ground where he met the the object still glowing hot, upon cooling he collected the material.

    so basically, this article essentially claims that Bob White is either a hoaxer or a scammer, (he is apparently trying to sell the artifact), or he is embellishing the story in some way, even if he really did see a ufo in the same area.
    he THOUGHT he collected an object, but that just happened to be industrial trash, in an area where he did see a ufo drop an object, but got the objects confused upon one of them cooling. that scenario seems about as far fetched to me as you could get, to have two products that look similiar, somehow show up in the same area.

    I think we would need to consider different ways that metals might be melted and projected, I am sure that more than one way to blast metal in liquid or gas/plasma form exists potentially.

    I am both a skeptic, and an initiate into various strange natural and possibly paranormal events…
    so I get sucked into both “camps” wanting to believe because I have seen my own amazing events transpire, but also not wanting to believe BULLSHIT because it wastes my time researching events , some of which may have a deep impact in my life.

    I do enjoy a good hoax dont get me wrong, especially humorous ones that make experts, or so called experts look sloppy.
    in that manner, a hoax does provide an important function into exploration of claims that people make.

    either Bob White had access to one of these grinding stone by products and came up with the story with a little diligence to reverse craft his experience,
    or he is telling the truth to a degree.
    either there was no ufo, and he possibly didnt even drive to the area with the object, and just made the story up wholesale,
    or there was a ufo sighted, and that helped lead to giving him an idea of what to do with his grinding stone,
    or there was a ufo, it did drop an object, but not the one he picked up,
    or, there was a ufo, it dropped an object, that he recognized because it was a source of light, that he then watched cool down, and took possession of.

    he should sell slices from a 1/8 slice taken from a higher corner…
    so that the total profile of the product is viewable from oneside
    and so that enough people have access to samples to send to various different areas of research.

    of course, not finding evidence of epoxy/industrial glue or other compounds, wouldnt rule it out of being product of man/or a product of another intelligence, just as if there were found to be epoxy/industrial compounds,
    we can make a guess for or against, but not with this just this new bit of evidence added to this case.

    it is VERY interesting though, and does give another line of conjecture to consider, and one that just might be testable in more than one line of analysis

  32. larry cekander says:

    dont you think after 14 labs have tested this thing they would have found epoxy resin. they didnt. and they wont.
    as far as this artical being so great it was flat was bs from word one.
    no eye witness tests or even bothering to contact anyone involved in the research.
    total bunch of absolute on you arse at the computor conjecture cliff.
    you want to do tests on the object you need to contact the person doing the reasearch. some hands on research is more reliable than conjecture from the computor room at the office..y9ou might contact one or two of thescientists who have worked on know DO SOME KIND OF ACTUAL DIGGING for the story..
    there are 34 elements identified in the artifact now. not one of them is glue, epoxy or otherwise..materials research scientist have stated on record it is not from this neighborhood. we know it was outside of earths atmosphere not to mention a hell of alot more.
    since bob was playing music, acting in tv and movies not to much time to look for alien artifacts in the slag pile..
    i have said this more than once and i wiill say it again. SHOW ME A PIECE OF ALUMINUM that has the characturistics of the bob white artifact. when you can do that you got something. i can show you iron ones all day. you aint going to find on aluminum one on this planet..
    larry cekander

    • James Carlson says:

      Yeah — not a whole lot of aluminum in this part of the galaxy, is there?

  33. John says:

    i remember the original story, the man had witnessed the ufo hovering. It shot off into the sky spitting the slagg behind, it seemed to be a by-product of the propulsion the machine had… it still seems primitive to some of the ways these things get around. I’d say our way of getting to the moon is even more primitive.

  34. walsall says:

    will all you believers please catch the next ufo off the planet and go fucking home !

  35. d fennessy says:

    Theirs a fish thats alomst see trough,transparent and when u shine a little light on it its becomes colour full and dreamlike,all the colours of the rainbow are going through this fish,pulsating pumping and flowing like yuve never seen before..this fish live about 4 miles down in the depths of somewhere like to mariana trench….and nobody believes a word of it ….it sounds made up ….and then one day sombody build a small sub capable on diving to such depths and takes a fucking vidoe camra with them and hay presto every body knows it to be fact now….wow…what a discovery ….maybe one day sombody will bild a space craft that can travel out of our solar system and take a camcorder with them and …well i think you get the jist of what im trying to moorons!

    • bethere says:

      If I may say, To understand it all you must look at this so called life that we all live.As there are over one bill,trillion,,,,,,,,,,solar systems that are around,Or is it that if we can not see it that the solar systems are not out there .OR THAT WE LIVE ON THE ONLY PLANET THAT CAN BE LIVED ON….??????????..
      Bethere .P>H>D

  36. Rune says:

    I do have to agree it looks an awful lot like a stalagmite. But that’s as far as I’m willing to go. It doesn’t really look like the stalagmite examples included in the article, although it bears some resemblance to figure C.

    My questions are:

    -Why can’t anyone find a picture of an aluminum stalagmite that looks like the Bob White object?
    -How could all these experts and top labs miss it being a simple industrial wasteproduct, and why would they all say it was highly anomalous and claim it everything from a superconductor to a polycarbonate, to something engineered through nanotechnology?
    -Why did NASA claim the Bob White Object was a meteorite? And why were other experts and labs actively engaged in an effort to deceive Bob White and anyone else who was curious about what this object might be?

  37. larry cekander says:

    aluminum will not form in that shape in an oxygen envirorment…just that simple..
    thats why no one can show one from our little blue world. the expert in this artical dont no dipcuss about aluminum and it shows..
    why did the best government lab in the world “los alamos” call the object an unknown artifact of unknown pretty sure they would recognize slag as would new mexico mines and minerals materials lab.
    they did no research and claim they know the answers to the question..sounds like a first grader counting to ten using fingers and toes to get there..
    what this thing is or was is anyones guess but it didnt fall off the beer truck and form under some grinding wheel of foundry pour…

    heres some more misinformation from the so called expert.
    Ean Harrison says:
    October 13, 2011 at 2:13 pm
    Actually the mystery was solved in 1985 when Mr. White’s story was being circulated. Any foundryman could immediately identify the object when shown a photo.

    that never happened at all.. the first release of ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THE ARTIFACT WAS IN 1996 NOT 1985.

    again more craker jack detective work by mr harrison and sceptic rag a zine..

  38. Rune says:

    I don’t know much about metalwork, but the explanation given here does sound… odd. The Bob White Object looks like it was formed under high heat. It hardly looks anything like glued together “shavings” like the other figures. I am a skeptic by nature, but something seems amiss here. Especially NASA’s meteor claims. I can’t believe NASA engineers wouldn’t recognize metal shavings. That level of incompetence seems to me to be more inexplicable than this object being something unusual.

  39. larry cekander says:

    its was formed under high pressure, in a vacuum in a molten condition, ejected into extreme cold. that is the only way to get feathered or chad layering in aluminum with sharp edges. test have conclude uncontrolled cooling took place. scientist have said on record both in writting and on tv this metal is not randomly formed. it was made for a specific purpose. it has been exposed to solar radiation outside of earths atmosphere, MIT confirmed this. the metal produces EMF reading that can be seen and read on any store bought meter. also confirmed. it has exposed dental film in a precise pattern and radiation testing in san diego proved that it has low level gama radiation.
    Research Scientist David Lamb, expert in physics and material science.
    Also works at a major US university. Findings were achieved using
    X-Ray Diffraction Analysis: The artifact showed an unique “amorphous peak
    and is a polycrystalline semiconductor”. To his knowledge this type of material
    is not found anywhere on Earth. Also there is silver concentration of 4.3%,
    here on Earth silver is used in this form by experimental scientist as a
    catalyst for a superconductor.

    Bubble Chamber tests where performed in San Diego which detected neutron radiation, gamma and Xray’s from the object. The neutron radiation can only come from a nuclear reactor or exposure to intense solar radiation. We know the object has been outside of our atmosphere because of these findings.

    We know the object has a very unusual amorphous peak and is a polychristilline semi-condutor. To our knowledge this type of material is not found anywhere on earth.

    There is a silver content of 4.3% that was detected during xray defraction tests done in Springfield Missouri in 2009. Silver is used a catalyst for a supercondutor. Superconductivity experiments where in their infancy in 1985 when this object was recovered.

    thats just some of the things NOT MENTIONED IN THE SKEPTIC STORY BECAUSE NO ONE BOTHERED TO CALL US to get any information on the object in question or do any kind of INVESTIGATION into the ongoing research of the metal.

    to say the very least the story written by mr harrison is poorly researched with no actual knowledge of the object since he has never seen held or talked to anyone about from our end and i know that because im the only one doing anything with the testing and information.

    very bad trying to fit a square peg into a round wont fit because the origin of the object cant be detected on our little planet.

    if your going to supposedly solve and issue its a GOOD IDEA TO INVESTIGATE IT FIRST..NO ONE FROM THIS ORGANIZATION DID THAT.

    larry cekander.

  40. Bruce Tedeschi says:

    This proves nothing… This could be the material produced by a process within a craft, ufo etc. Open your minds… They have been here for hundreds of thousands of years.

  41. James Carlson says:

    I guess that settles it, then. It’s the antichrist… nothing else it could be. Damn. Now we have to go blow up Jerusalem. Thanks a lot, space guys. I really liked that city, too…

  42. ledj says:

    Time will tell!!! I am sceptical of sceptics! So experts are baffled!! My experience of experts is that they baffle everyone with science including themselves while overlooking the obvious simple answer.

  43. ski says:

    While I realize that certain things can and will be looked at as explainable, what I don’t understand is how intelligent people, skeptical or not, could simply dismiss the fact that we’re not alone in the universe.
    Even Stephen Hawking says that just by doing the math, you’ll find that the odds are in favor of it.
    I read somewhere that there are more stars in the sky than grains of sand that exist on our planet, and for every star, there are millions if not billions of planets that orbit them, and thats just in our galaxy! There are also billions of galaxies in existance! So to say that we are the “ONLY” intelligent life forms in existance is absolutley obsurd! Are they here? Are they visiting? Are they leaving signs? Those are completely different questions all together. But to dismiss the possibility is ignorant and just plain wrong.
    Just in the last decade, we have found 2 new species of whales. Large whales that up until the last 10 years nobody had ever seen. Yet skeptics are so quick to dismiss the possibility of intelligent life in an area so vast that our minds can literally not even grasp… I just don’t get it.
    I don’t know if we will ever make “contact” with intelligent life out there. It may never happen, but to say that it’s not even possible is a disservice to general intelligence and needs to stop.

  44. Keith says:

    If this object was initially liquid aluminum, it would never assume the shape of a grinding wheel stalagmite.  This object looks way too similar to other stalagmites.  I’m sure its cross section will match a typical earth-made one.

  45. Jeff Lowther says:

    Wow! You skeptics are amazing! Nobody could identify the object and all it was was simple grinding residue? C’mon.. what a joke. Why is it then that nobody has reproduced this object or created a replica of it? I mean if it is man-made we should be able to reproduce it with no problem. This article reminds me of something Jesse Marcel said, “It may have looked like tin-foil and balsa wood, but the similarities ended there.”

  46. larryroyc says:

    skeptics remeind me of a babies diaper usually full of it..grin

  47. realc says:

    Well this may be solved but even astronauts and Governors are coming forward now
    regarding UFO’s

    • larry cekander says:

      this is not solved.. just because some aledged expert says he has the answer sure as hell dont make it so..

      this guy has never even seen the artifact or done a bit of research on it. AT ALL..
      hes full of it as far as his information he has stated goes. anyone who know ANYTHING about molten aluminum knows it would never free form in this configuration. impossible PERIOD..

  48. Robert says:

    I for one believe that UFO’s are real but unfortunately there are people who will try to BS the community with fraudulent hoaxes. I saw this piece of material on either the History Channel of another Science channel, being offered up as a piece of a UFO. I was skeptical even then. I am glad to see this evidence offered up and proven wrong. Thank you for publishing.

  49. larry cekander says:

    what makes you think this is proven wrong. this expert is no expert in aluminum alloy’s and we have PROVEN extraterrestrial origins of the artifact.
    you cant hoax this piece of metal..there are millions of iron and steel pieces shaped like the bob white object but there not BEEN ONE SHOWN MADE OF ALUMINUM. SHOW ME ONE OF THEM.

  50. larry cekander says:!/UFOHARDEVIDENCELLC
    latest information on this link

  51. Puppit says:

    Maybe this artifact is from here…maybe thats why they are here. Our deserts could easily be from strip mining. we do that to our planet to get materials why wouldnt they..its kinda of selfish to think with all the billions of galaxys that we are the only lucky ones to exist. And swearing or using nasty words only makes people sound less intelligent…so if your gonna swear and belittle peeps cause they dont have the same opinion as you…then maybe you should just go and sit in the corner til you find some self control.

  52. LAUREN says:

    This is B S anyone that worked with metal and gringing knows what this is. Look inside any cover on any ginder and you will find the same es in the picture above .

    Better luck next Bob White !!!

  53. shit head says:

    thats a rock T_Tlike realy think im that gullible

  54. larry cekander says:

    sorry no rock not gringing wheel dust..scientific investigations by major labs and universities say it isnt from around here and it sure didnt come from a grinding wheel..thats ludicrous IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT VICKERS HARDNESS SCALES, xray defractions tests, scanning electron microscopes, pixe tests, which is a small version of and partical excellerator then your work bench theory pretty much blows….

    internet arm chair investigators…if you saw it you wouldnt be blowing smoke!/UFOHARDEVIDENCELLC

  55. Bob White of New Zealand says:


    Saturday 19 May 2012


    8.20 pm


    Timaru, South Island


    7 elliptical orange lights


    Clear, starry evening. Duration of sighting 8 to 9 minutes.
    A witness observed seven slightly elliptical, bright reddish-orange lights at an altitude of approximately 1000 to 2000 feet, in the sky to the south, travelling northwards near the South Beach, towards Timaru. The lights were spaced apart, travelling quickly and silently. The lights faded out one by one as they neared Timaru.
    The witness phoned a friend in another part of town, 1/2 km west of this location, and asked him to look due east for these lights low in the sky over the South Beach. The second witness confirmed the sighting.
    The reporting witness stated that at one time there were two lights closer together, and one of them delivered what he described as a “large bluish-white ‘pod’, as opposed to a beam of light”, down in a curving direction towards the ocean. This happened in a split-second.

  56. Bob White of New Zealand says:

    Check out ufo sightings NZ 2012 same as above I’m another convinced Bob White , first hand evidence is very convincing.

  57. Black Lantern says:

    I’m pretty skeptic.

    I’m not a blind believer in everything unexplained, paranormal or out of this world and to be honest pretty much everything can be explained away. I wish this wasn’t the case…but it is. Most ufo’s are airforce drones, or remote targets, hoaxes, so on, and so on…Makes me sad, I’d love some irifutable evidence (something most skeptics battle against to the point of thickheadedness) I’d love to be wrong regrading this.
    When I first heard about the Bob white object I thought I had been prooved wrong.

    My rambling aside, here is my point…

    From the heart, I’ve got to admit that the Bob White object makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. You can’t knock it, its a solid artefact which has been tested at various labs, under differnet scientific conditions and has produced more than interesting unexplainable results.

    So here this theory comes that in fact its nothing more than a pile of built up metal slag from some sort of run of the mill industrial drill or something. I’m puzzled. This case was featured on the show UFO Hunters, a program I have found is more concerned with explaining/dispelling UFO myths and has a skeptical side which would have 100% been put forward the metal shaving theory on the episode itself. This was not the case. Their researchers would have found this out…no question.

    So please, Skeptics out there, do some controlled tests on various samples of these metal stalagtites and compare the results with those of the Bob White Object. If they are similar or the same then case closed – Bob White was a convincing liar, if the results are radically different be content that for once there might actually be an object on this planet from another place, time, dimension, somewhere else where and the world would be that little bit more interesting for it.

    Also, regarding people calling into question Bob White just because in the later stages of his life he tried to sell the object for a shedload of cash, as if that somehow calls into question the authenticity of the object itself, or the validity of his story, these people really need to get a freaking grip. If I had found it, I would sell it without question…Everyone needs money, everyone needs to eat.

  58. larry cekander says:

    theres nothing to test the artifact against….there are no aluminum objects even close
    the artifact bob white recovered…

    nothing looks like, has the elements in it or the unusual properties that have been demonstrated on numerous shows and in documentaries…

    thanks for your seeing the difference between bs and and us…

  59. carmin says:

    I saw the story about this object on UFO Hunters. An interesting property of the object was that it caused the batteries of the safe in which it was being stored to go dead. Perhaps it was a coincidence, but why was this event conveniently overlooked?
    Would waste from a foundry grinding do that?

  60. Eric Ashworth says:

    UFOs are interplanetary vehicles that are equiped with two types of propulsion both units operate in the same way, one being fission fusion magnetic the other being fission fusion mechanical. Both systems form a unifying field that oscillates. Mechanical system for in the earths atmosphere photon engine when out of the atmosphere. The requirement to understand UFOs is to understand the internal dynamics of the atom which requires understanding kinetics. For more information go to the http:// address

  61. eric surrarrer says:

    i love ufos i dont know why there is so many skeptics out there in this world things are always overlooked because humans in this world dont want to believe in things that are not of this world humans want to think and believe we are the only living beings in this universe and beyond i dont understand why human beings always deny things to do with aliens,fairies,and spirits they always want to debunk it.its such a shame

  62. Dave says:

    Hey, Twileg!, get your hammer, we need to clear the ION propulsion sensor again, da*n thing has built up another tooth.

    Ohkay boss, give me a moment.

    Twileg hopped out near the hatch, adjusting his suit to protect him again the alien atmosphere, and scampered out along the boom.

    Hurry up, we can’t keep the drive shut down forever!

    Ohkay boss,

    Twileg reached the probe and gave the tooth a big whack with his hammer. The accretion residue popped off the almost frictionless surface of the sensor and tumbled away , dropping towards the odd green blue globe.

    Ohkay boss, done.

    Twileg scampered back and ducked into the hatch, turning off his suit.

    The ION drive fired up, once again operating smoothly now that the sensor was cleared of the annoying tooth of material.

    Good job Twileg, go get your self a snack before we fire up the outer system drive, I want to leave this blog forsaken area and get back to civilization!

    Ohkay boss, sounds good!

  63. kevin smith says:

    I work at a Thermal Spray Technological company which sprays either powdered metal into a molten state at mach 5, or an arc spray which blows the electrode metal such as brass also at mach 5 to coat various products to increase their lifetimes. These exact structures are the result of build-up of over spray behind the product. This BS’er gives ufo hunters a bad name.

  64. larry cekander says:

    so you could do what you do now in 1985..thats BS, BEST YOU COULD DO WAS OVER COAT OTHERS SOLID METAL CORES. again show me an aluminum silcon alloy with 33 elements in it. YOUR CANT FIT 2012 TECHNOLOGY to 1985 tecnology.
    your industry does external coats or layers of metal…the bob white object is soiid centered aluminum alloy confirmed by 13 test labs so far. im pretty sure new mexico mines and minerals, would know plasma spray as would los alamos, mit, AND missouri state, materials dept who did the xray defraction tests finding the amporphus peak, scripts in san diego WHICH SHOWED the object isotope in strontium falls directly between 2 know extraterrrestrial metorites , and more im not going into. my point is where we have taken this metal THEY WOULD KNOW PLASMA SPRAY
    i know what the test say kevin. i
    know what the scientist say and plasma spray was ruled out years ago and still is.

    33 Elements identified so far are,
    Gold, Silver, Arsenic, Oxygen Aluminum, Iron, Silicon, Calcium,
    Barium, Boron, Cadmium, Cobalt, Sulfur, Copper, Chlorine, Chromium, Europium, Gadolinium, Gallium, Maganese, Magnesium, Zinc, Molybdenum, Nickel, Phosphorus, Potassium, Sodium, Strontium, Titanium, Yttrium,Vanadium, Zirconium, Barium.
    those are identified from the center tall piece which was cut off at los alamos.
    All tests aggree this is some form of alloy Aluminum material but no one can find a source where is was made. It matches nothing on our planet now or in 1985 when it was recovered by Bob White.

    now i supose your going to tell me you have all those elements in one place and use thems for you plasma sprays.. i dont tink so..

    heres and idea MAKE ME ONE that looks like the artifact bob recovered in 85,

    dont forget all the little anomalies like exposing xray film in pin point dots, emf signal from object in 2 readable frequencies, confirmed more than once, show that abalation layering in uniform rings on the outside but solid center with an amorphus peak in the lattice struture, oh how will you form the two bumps or humps at the bottom. remember this object wasnt formed on a flat surface…the end of it was cut off at los alamos, nope i believe you cant do that kevin and making a statement that im lieing without doing anything such as HANDS ON TESTING OF YOUR OWN OR SEEING THE ARTIFACT IN PERSON. is kind of over the line since you dont know me at all..
    you want to see it ill show it to you in eureka springs in april as i will be presenting the case to that conference there.
    on your butt behind the computor screen is not considered much research kevin.
    have a happy new year. you know where the web sites are. dont be a stranger…

    larry cekander
    museum anomalies research group
    reeds spring, mo
    417 230- 9439

  65. LAUREN says:

    as a steel worker and welder i have seen this before by product of grinding metals it is not from a ufo .

    • larry cekander says:

      no you havnt seen this lauren. it isnt powder. it is SOLID ALUMINUM show me one of them grinding wheel solid aluminum build ups..
      love to see

  66. Voodoo Mamma Ju Ju says:

    I was walking my pet zaboomafoo down to the Neverland ranch with a peanut butter jelly chicken tuna sandwich, when the mysterious poo bear swam over to me. He asked if we had his hair bun, and I said no. But his charming smile made me confess that I had stolen it from his uncle’s jar of fire flies. I feel really guilty! What should I do? How do we remain friends?

  67. james says:

    Did anyone ever consider this object could have been formed by the grinding of an aluminum rotating part in a flying craft (ufo) terrestrial or extraterrestrial? Government secret or alien technology?

    • larry cekander says:

      you can not get enough friction to turn aluminum molten then free form. GO to ANY ALUMINUM manufacture you can find and no matter how hard you look. where you go or who you see YOU WILL NEVER FIND THIS UNDER ANY GRINDING WHEEL, or from shaving off of some part rubbing against its self. IF SOME ONE HAD ANYTHING LIKE WE HAVE THAT IS MADED OF ALUMINUM THEY WOULD BE SHOWING IT OFF TO DEBUNK THIS CASE.
      this metal was ejected into a vacuum to create the feather chad effect on the object.

      i will be at this conference april 12-14 with the artifact, scientific test results done
      and the presentation of those finding for all to see. you can see the artifact yourself. would be good place for some of that indepth expertise on metals and great investigative reporting skeptic does on its stories it publish that are so almost right on like this one.
      maybe mr harrison can bring me a few of the hundred of yard ornaments he has like what we have..

  68. Anthony Forwood says:

    You people need to realize that the government uses the UFO enigma as a cover-up for both earthly advanced technologies and for mind-control experiments (as in alien abduction cover memories). The gov. is in tight with most or all of the organizations that did the analysis of this object. They will certainly use the opportunity to put out more disinfo to keep people off track.

    Start with the most plausible explanations, no matter how complex they might be in comparison to assuming that only something other-worldly can explain it.

    Use Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation that introduces the least number of assumptions is usually the best one.

  69. mike from melbourne oz says:

    I question the need for skeptics and there slant on reality.
    Yes free speech is an essential part of democracy
    But why are some people adamantly negative about un- explained phenonama.
    It’s as if everything paranormal in their eyes is open to congecture.
    I question their motives and ask are they really human.
    All aspects of of the perceived world are real to the individual observer.
    Reality is not preconceived but is for ever changing.
    one as only to look at the macro world of string theory to understand we live in a ever unfolding
    Macroverse/Multiverse of possibilities.
    The two set of pics grinding material composite/and artefact have no resemblance to one another
    It beggers belief what is going through the electronic ciruitrey of a skeptic’s brain
    Apart from intestinal secretians.
    End of story.

  70. Angie says:

    one question , do any of the sceptic’s on this page believe in God ? if the answer is yes then please present us with the evidence, or tell us about your own personal experience with God , then ask yourself why the thought of aliens is out of this world (excuse the pun) but the existence of God isnt !!!!

  71. James White says:


    I do not have specific stake in this. I, for one, would welcome proof of an extraterrestrial object — i.e. an object that is indisputably of origins beyond this planet. The difficulty, of course, is in establishing concretely what can / cannot be achieved here on Earth, given the collective know-how of humanity, to include the cumulatively scientific / engineering knowledge of several hundred years.

    To be frank, I would only be convinced if a large group of credentialed scientists publicly, formally (i.e. through the use of their title and affiliation) and collectively announced peer-reviewed test results (and the testing methodologies used to acheive said results) that demonstrated that the object COULD NOT have been created / produced / etc. here on Earth. Not that we are unfamiliar with the process, but that for reasons X, Y and Z it is simply impossible for this object to have a terrestrial origin. And I would like to see such results memorialized in a top-tier scientific journal.

    For the time being, I’m willing to concede there is no definitive proof, either way. I will also note that, where there is no definitive proof, each of us is free to decide how we will approach the debate. A big issue for me is whether I am willing to invest my time and financial resources in the public discussions and disquisitions of those purporting to be “experts” with regard to this matter. Certainly, Mr. Cekander is a strong-minded voice supporting the extra-terrestrial authenticity of this object. Yet, links to Facebook pages and claims of conclusive lab results — particularly by someone with a clear reputational and likely financial interest in this matter — fall far, far short of remotely convincing me.

    Look, if you (the casual observer) are convinced then great. If you’re willing to pay hard earned money to see Mr. Cekander speak than have at it. My point is only that, with finite time and resources at my disposal, I try to judge the cost / benefit of any investment I make. And so far, I would not pay to see him or to attend his events. Nothing personal, I’ve just lived long enough, and seen enough claims debunked, to require something more before I take the next step.

    I will also add that Mr. Cekander’s general nastiness toward other posters, and frankly his inability to post in a professional or even grammatically-sound manner, raises real questions for me. Even if there is a treasure trove of indisputable evidence that is properly peer-reviewed and a consensus of scientists is willing to stake their collective reputations on — even if this somehow exists — then I would need someone of a stronger scientific pedigree than Mr. Cekander before I accept it.

    I’m not shooting the messenger, Mr. Cekander. But I’m certainly not letting him in the door.

  72. larry cekander says:

    only problem is their expert couldnt debunk the object AT ALL. hes dont know squat about aluminum or the flow characteristic.. see me or dont i dont not here to impress you with my grammer abilities. im stating known facts to date that cant be debunked..its not rocket science,. its hands on testing by experts..sceptic did NO HANDS ON ANYTHING but try to claim from a picture what the artifact was.
    that is not research..that is bull cah cah.

  73. Shaey says:

    No matter what anyone says, there will always be those people who try to disprove evidence or make up stories about everything alien, because they are scared to admit that they are real. Whether it messes with their religious beliefs or they just like being contrary. I’m sure the scientists from the labs that did the testing aren’t going to lie about it. The object was a composition of elements of unknown origin, and were capable of something that we have only just begun testing – superconductivity. What does this tell you? That it was NOT made on earth. We don’t have the technology yet. That is obvious. No matter what anyone says, they can’t deny the facts. We cannot make something like this object yet, so it must come from somewhere else. End of argument. I would not bother arguing with these other people who dispute this case. Some people just don’t want to accept the truth.

  74. larry cekander says:

    i wouldnt even be here if skeptic hadnt try to do a bs artical with no research at all. my phone number is posted for all to see and they got what information there is out there on the artifact from my web sites. now if you want to do and artical shouldnt you at least talk to some involved with the case. then it helps if youe so called expert has SOME KIND of aluminum thats the funny thing about the whole deal. mr harrison doesnt have a clue..

  75. Mike D says:

    If the artifact was very hot and glowing upon observation when discovered, and it has just fallen from the sky, has it any impact deformations or embedded dirt / debris from the impact with the ground while very hot and maliable?
    Just a question.

  76. larry cekander says:

    yes it did. los alamos found in bedded sand particals that are from the landing area that we are testing now at a lab in ct. the soil is above background radiation with several piece of material that are considered hot. these tests have been ongoing since january with a constant run going on since jan.
    very interesting results so far but no conclusions to the results as yet. all we know for sure is the landing site has hot spots still 18 years after the event took place. we have tested the artifact and it to is still hot in places but not as much as it was 5 years ago. the artifact didnt impact per say. it hit on a slope on a hill and cut a groove in the sand.

  77. The Lord Allmighty says:

    I highly doubt that an advanced civilization would build a craft that ejects molten chunks of aluminum and SILVER as a by product. Can you imagine life on their home planet? “Oh man, another person was killed today because of those damn ships. Can’t anyone come up with a better idea?”

  78. larry cekander says:

    there have been many ufo sightings where molten metal was ejected and recovered
    afterwards. whosays they are smart..if they excist..
    what was recovered by bob came from out side our atmosphere..PROVEN by scientific test.
    cant change the facts. it happened and there is physical proof.
    who knows what this came from other than it returned to the point of origin of the encounter to sart with.
    that sums it up. its here and we have it,

  79. Vania T. says:

    Does anyone know of a site we can talk to others about what we saw? have been wanting to meet others with sightings.

  80. larry cekander says:

    my sites listed have message boards

    the black vault is also a major web site for discussions.

    • James says:

      I live up the road a piece in the Queen City. Used to have a place in Hideaway back when you still had to drive through the junction and I often passed Bob’s place after a fine meal at the Dairy Dell. Let me just say I don’t what the hell it is you have, but I do know that when a magazine claims to have solved a mystery, then posts one man’s opinion about an object in spite of the fact he has never examined the object, completely erases any credibility of the so called “skeptic”. It’s clear that the James Randi’s of the world are losing the battle, primarily because REAL scientists like Dean Radin and Rupert Sheldrake have joined the fray and made the supercilious illusionist look as silly as most of his tricks. There are thousands if not millions of regular people like myself who have a major interest in science and have no agenda other than the truth. Unfortunately, the truth is not to be found in publications such as this. Neither is it to be found at most of the UFO conferences, although there may be elements of the truth. I’ve seen Dolan’s work criticized often, but his book, UFOs and the National Security State to me, make the most compelling case for the UFO phenomena. Although I don’t believe a lot our Government tells us, I AM inclined to believe the hundreds of recently declassified CIA and other intelligence reports, memos, and communications that clearly show that at least our Government believes the phenomena to be real and that it may pose a serious threat to our national security. That’s enough for me. No picture, video, or witness statement will EVER prove that UFOs are anything more than swamp gas, but when the Director of the CIA and countless Majors, Generals, Astronauts, etc. say the shit is happening, I’m inclined to believe it. Call me crazy…..
      I look forward to meeting you personally at the conference.

      • larry cekander says:

        i will be looking forward to meeting you to. the object will be on display and you can see it unlike the writers of this story here at sceptic who didn’t think it important enough see before making sweeping claims of origins located and mystery solved not hardly. my new book with the extraterrestrial signatures identified will be on sale also.
        my lecture is at 2pm friday the 12th. will be a 90 minute presentation.
        This link will explain my gig completely.
        True story of the search for the origins of the Artifact recovered from a UFO encounter in 1985. I found the answer! This is the Rosetta Stone of UFO research. This isn’t the smoking gun. This is the bullet from the gun! Its not missing and it is Extraterrestrial.
        The TRUE STORY of the struggle to seek the answers to the UFO ARTIFACT recovered by Bob White in 1985.

  81. david jones says:

    The object in question appears to have been formed “fat end first” and hanging downwards. This can been seen by the direction of overlapping layers of the metal. It clearly wasn’t deposited on the ground and then built up over time as the ‘stalagmite’ theory suggests.

  82. larry cekander says:

    just got some new test results posted at the web site.

  83. DoubtingThomas says:

    this Larry Cekander guy should spend less time trying to sell his alien foundry refuse and more time scientifically analyzing some fifth-grade spelling and language books.

  84. larry cekander says:

    ahhh another bright star has blinked on. Thomas a closed mind is a waste of my time.
    I have people a lot smarter than me working on the artifact and i go by what they say.
    their test SAY it was not formed in out atmosphere. that rule out foundry waste unless you know of one on mars or close to it.

    I’m not selling anything. I am presenting factual scientific test results. That is way more than any one did at this magazine on the story. It’s not from a machine shop, a foundry, an arc furnace or the bumper guard off of a 1952 Buick Road Master.

    end of story.

  85. Alien Stories says:

    Hey Guys check this out

  86. wayworld says:

    I haven’t read the article yet but would likt to comment on the ‘real world example given about the street light sensors being affected by a cars headlights. That ‘solution’ is a fine example of sudo science in action. Street light sensors are located on top of the light standards, 20 feet or more above the ground. A cars maladjusted headlights would have to shine from somewhere above 20 feet down to the sensor! Engineers have taken these matters into account when designing them. Debunkers will grasp at a ‘real world’ explanation no matter how ridiculous it is and then say, matter closed. Proving only that their grasp of the ‘real world’ is as tenuous as those who dance with faries! Call me a sceptic!

  87. wayworld says:

    After reading your article I can again remain sceptical. I echo the thoughts of others here. Your ‘solution’ is based on what is called hearsay basing your case on what a machinist (not named) says is common. Scientific analysis involves more than grasping desperately at a straw of an argument and patting the backs of your fellow club members. It is sad how science has been degraded by close minded sudoscientists who twist facts to meet their pre-determined expectations.

  88. wayworld says:

    Here is a clip from an original report proving your article is a poor example of science in action.

    We have proof from scientific tests that the metal object recovered in 1985 by Bob White is not from our planet. Testing has shown that the object is manufactured but no one has been able to identify the process used to make it.
    Scientists have gone on record stating that the object is an unknown metal manufactured for a specific purpose.
    Since then testing has been on going in labs across the country including Los Alamos National Lab in New Mexico, Scripps in San Diego California, New Mexico School of mines and minerals, MIT in Boston, and many others. The latest testing was performed at MSU in Springfield Missouri where the latest anomalies where found by Materials researcher David Lamb. These included findings of an amorphous peak and a poly-crystalline semiconductor. To his knowledge this type of material is not found anywhere on earth. Since 1996 when tests where first initiated on the Bob White Artifact many unusual things have been identified in the object. 33 elements have been identified so far with some of them the most rare to be found on earth or else where for that matter.
    We have detected EMF radiation coming from the object in the 500 hertz range which can be detected with any Radio Shack EMF meter. Bubble Chamber tests where performed in San Diego which detected neutron radiation, gamma and x-ray’s from the object. The neutron radiation can only come from a nuclear reactor or exposure to intense cosmic radiation. We know the object has been outside of our atmosphere because of these findings. We know is was formed in a vacuum environment from the feathered chads on the outside of the object. We know the object was in a molten condition, ejected under extreme pressure into a very cold environment causing uncontrolled cooling of the object. We know the object has a very unusual amorphous peak and is a poly-crystalline semi-conductor. To our knowledge this type of material is not found anywhere on earth.
    There is a silver content of 4.3% that was detected during x-ray diffraction tests done in Springfield Missouri in 2009. Silver is used a catalyst for a super-conductor. Superconductivity experiments where in their infancy in 1985 when this object was recovered. Much more information will soon be presented at the ozark Mountain UFO Conference held in Eureka Springs AR.

  89. larry cekander says:

    The links pretty much covers everything i’m researching now.
    417 230 9439 linkden

  90. Eric says:

    The aliens build space craft without using a high speed bench grinder?I think not.

  91. Scott says:

    I am skeptical of this object as well but you answer does not answer the question as to why a large percentage of the objects make-up is silver.

  92. Mark Rees says:

    In 1979/80 I was driving my pal home in my mothers Ford Capri in the Isle Of Man and we were heading towards a place called Onchan via the TT course on a section called the Bedstead. This is a straight piece of road which leads to Signpost corner which then carries on up the mountain. Approx 150/200 metres away hovering silently was a spherical form which had a clearly defined dark/black outline and it’s inner looked like a ball of fire a bit like looking into the middle of a brightly burning coal fire. It was approx the size of a double decker bus but spherical in shape. My cousin who was sitting next to me unfortunately couldn’t see it because he was to high in his seat compared to me. I’m 5ft 8″ and he’s about 6ft 2″.In the split second I said to , look at that , he went what; I yanked him by the ear to lower his head to the wind screen in which time the ball of fire vanished into thin air!
    I have never discussed this experience till recently when I saw a documentary on the T.V where a former rear gunner on a Lancaster bomber was talking about a series of bright lights which wizzed around the plane and were recorded by the captain and submitted his findings to the M.O.D. Apparantly this was quite a regular occurence during the second World War but that Churchil had placed these findings/sitings into a Highly Classified folder and not to be shown to the public. However after 50 years this info is now to hand! It really hit a chord with me when the rear gunner was asked to describe what he saw and he said; “they looked like Balls of Fire! ” I know to some this may seem crazy but it’s true. It’s a shame my pal didn’t see what I saw since he’s just retired from the Police Force!

  93. Black says:

    Its Martian Medicinal – Its used for Middle aged Martians that are on long journeys and have no access to Lavatories – Holding it in for long periods causes Martian Piles – Thus the visit to Earth which is seen as a lay by travel station – for some old Martian RR Q.E.D.

  94. LARRY CEKANDER says:


    The links pretty much covers everything i’m researching now.
    417 230 9439 linkden

  95. steve says:

    Talk about grabbing at straws….Utter BS!!!

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