Podcasting is Penetrating the Mainstream
Changes in the structure of the media in recent years have expanded the range of opinions voiced in public, broadening the so-called “Overton Window,” that is, the articulation of views that is considered to be within the bounds of acceptable discourse without being perceived as too extreme. Issues that were once considered inappropriate to discuss in polite society are now seeping into civic dialogue.
The issue of immigration is illustrative of this trend. For years, the mainstream media, particularly the prestige press, evinced a liberal bias,1 and in the United States worked to delegitimate resistance to immigration as racist. Over time, however, cable television steadily chipped away at the dominance of the big three television networks—ABC, NBC, and CBS—which led to greater market segmentation, resulting in a more fragmented media landscape. With the expansion of news outlets, immigration restrictionists today have much greater voice in the media than they did in the past. Right-wing cable news and internet sites now reflect a broader scope of opinions, which has occasioned a polarization in America’s political culture. Podcasting is accelerating this trend.
The Podcasting Revolution
Podcasting has emerged as one of the most dominant formats of contemporary media. In essence, podcasting is a form of programming made available in digital format for downloading over the internet. A portmanteau of “iPod” and “broadcast,” the term podcast was coined by The Guardiancolumnist and BBC journalist Ben Hammersley in an article that appeared in 2004.2 The year before, a program called Open Source hosted by Christopher Lydon was launched, which featured discussions on politics and culture. It is considered by some observers to be the first ever podcast.3 Since then, the format has skyrocketed in popularity. Critically, the U.S.-based social media and online video sharing platform—YouTube—enabled the proliferation of podcasting. Subsequent platforms have emerged, including Bitchute, Rumble, and Odysee, which created even more venues for podcasting and related programming.
Not unlike listening to the radio was in the past, podcasts are designed for passive consumption. People often listen to them when they are carrying out other tasks—driving, working out, doing chores, etc. According to a 2023 Pew Research Center study, roughly half of all Americans have listened to a podcast in the previous year, a figure that presumably has increased since then.4 The emergence of COVID-19 and the ensuing lockdown propelled the popularity of podcasting, as people spent time at home and tuned in for information, entertainment, and a sense of connection.5 Inasmuch as young people comprise the largest segment of podcast consumers, its popularity is projected to continue in the future.
Because podcasts are DIY enterprises with no official gatekeepers, the entry costs are low. Virtually anyone with an internet connection can launch one. Podcasts do not necessarily require a professional set or expensive cameras. Since there is no commissioning process involved, the style of podcasts is often freewheeling and uncensored. Podcasts thrive on candor. Their unfiltered nature makes them attractive to audiences jaded by the stage-managed major networks.
To many listeners, podcasts are effective venues for honest conversations. Their formats are often long, which can be more meandering, encouraging interlocutors to be more open in their discussions. With no studio audience, there is an ambience of personal conversation that encourages people to open up more.6 Podcasts offer the opportunity to connect with supporters in a more comprehensive way than previous media, thus fostering deeper connections between their hosts and their listeners. Unlike previous media formats, podcasting offers a more intimate experience, allowing hosts to share stories, insights, and expertise in a conversational tone.7
Flexibility is another key feature, as podcasts can be consumed anywhere and at any time. Although most listeners tune in to podcasts for entertainment, they often hear about news stories as well. People who listen to them can get information that they would not have heard about elsewhere.8 Moreover, when Americans hear about news on podcasts, a large proportion of them view it largely as accurate (87 percent),9 a figure substantially higher than their trust in the mainstream media.10
The fledging medium of podcasting presents an attractive vehicle for views that had previously been locked out of the public sphere.
The rising popularity of social media sites, such as Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok, enable podcasters to garner large followings. With a substantial fan base, they can become self-financing. A myriad of monetization options are available. The most popular hosts earn multimillion salaries. For example, Joe Rogan rakes in on the order of $60 million a year on his podcast alone. As of 2024, the podcasting industry was valued at $2.2 billion and is expected to grow to $17.59 billion by 2030.11 The fledging medium of podcasting presents an attractive vehicle for views that had previously been locked out of the public sphere.
Tucker Carlson
Since his departure from Fox News, Tucker Carlson has gained an enormous following on social media. Although at one time his program was the highest rated news show in the history of cable television, his strident opposition to illegal immigration and the Black Lives Matter movement scared off many advertisers. Fox News dismissed him from his position in April of 2023 but provided no reason for his termination.
Undaunted, in May of 2024, Carlson launched a podcast entitled The Tucker Carlson Show, which by July of 2024 rose to one of the most popular shows on Spotify. Concomitant with his departure from the mainstream media, has been his increasing extremism. His program has hosted many controversial figures, for example the amateur historian Darryl Cooper, who appeared on the program and castigated Winston Churchill as the “chief villain of World War II.”12 In late October of 2025, Carlson sat down with the noted racialist Nick Fuentes for a cordial conversation, but soon faced severe backlash for platforming him. The incident polarized the conservative movement. Whereas Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation and chief author of the Project 2025 publication, defended Carlson’s decision to interview Fuentes, Fox News personality Mark Levin condemned his former colleague for platforming Fuentes.13
The Trump administration’s military intervention in Iran has also polarized the MAGA movement. Some of Trump’s most stalwart supporters have broken ranks and have become some of his most vociferous critics. After the president posted a controversial AI-generated image of himself dressed in Christ-like robes, Carlson mused that he might even be the anti-Christ.14
Candace Owens
Candace Owens, a rising star in the podcast sphere, has appeared as a guest on Tucker Carlson’s programs on numerous occasions. The two have frequently praised each other’s journalism. Following the October 7, 2023, Hamas-led attack on Israel, her public remarks occasioned a very public feud with one of The Daily Wire’s founders, Ben Shapiro. Finally, Owens was dismissed from her position in March of 2024, as her comments were perceived as antisemitic by Shapiro and other members of The Daily Wire’s staff. Undaunted, she expressed relief following her termination, posting on 𝕏 “The rumors are true—I am finally free.”
Owens exudes a Patrician demeanor. Her early childhood, however, was dysfunctional and underprivileged. Born in 1989 in White Plains, New York, she described her situation as a family of six that lived in a small, three-bedroom apartment within a run-down, roach-infested building. When she was nine years old, though, her paternal grandparents took her to live with them in a middle-class neighborhood in Stamford, Connecticut, where her surroundings were much better. Reflecting on the move, she described it as one of the greatest blessings of her life.15
As a young adult, Owens identified as a liberal, though she had no interest in politics. In 2016, she created and promoted a project called Social Autopsy, an intended anti-cyberbullying platform.16 The idea was to let users submit screenshots of offensive or harassing social media posts, then build a searchable database that would link those posts to people’s real names, employers, and other identifying information. Critics from across the political spectrum immediately called it a doxxing tool or public shaming database that would enable harassment and vigilantism by de-anonymizing users. After her crowdfunding campaign aiming to fund the project was taken down for violating terms of service, Owens abandoned the idea and it never launched. Her curiosity about politics was ultimately piqued when Donald Trump courted Black voters by asking them, “What do you have to lose?” Stunned by his lack of traditional etiquette, she was soon converted. She understood the brazenness of his approach, and it eventually won her over.17
Podcasts thrive on candor. Their unfiltered nature makes them attractive to audiences jaded by the stage-managed major networks.
For her rejection of the claim that racism remains pervasive in contemporary America, Owens has occasionally been derided by her detractors as a “white supremacist,” though she rejects that characterization. The Black Lives Matter movement has come under her scathing criticism. Not one to shy from controversy, one week after George Floyd’s death Owens released a video in which she condemned the protests and rejected the mainstream media narrative that Floyd was a martyr for Black America. The video went viral and was viewed nearly 100 million times in only four days. Many people praised her for having the temerity to speak “the truth.”18 Her pronouncements were not without critics, however, with the popular comedian Dave Chappelle calling her “a rotten bitch.”19
Increasingly on Owens’s podcast, the legitimacy of Israel is routinely called into question. After breaking with The Daily Wire, Owens became much more strident, even declaring the authenticity of Jewish ritual murder. In her estimation, the state of Israel was intended to be a haven for Jewish ritual child-murderers and pedophiles affiliated with the 18th-century Frankist sect.20
Owens has criticized not only Israel, but the broader Jewish diaspora. In recognition, in late 2024, she was selected as the “Antisemite of the Year” by StopAntisemitism, an advocacy group devoted to combating antisemitism and criticism of Israel.21
Despite her controversial pronouncements, Owens is still a sought-after political and social commentator. Once dubbed “the new face of Black conservatism,” Owens is enormously popular, especially with younger people. Her YouTube channel has roughly 5.97 million followers and has been viewed over a billion times. For that reason, her drift toward extreme discourse is understandably disconcerting to some quarters of the Jewish community. Ominously, it could presage a greater collaboration amongst extremist subcultures.
Nick Fuentes
An important event occurred in July 2025, when Candace Owens hosted Nick Fuentes for a two-hour interview on her podcast. In the past, the two have traded barbs, but also praised each other. When Owens was released from The Daily Wire for her criticism of Israel, Fuentes instructed his followers to “stand with Candace.”22 During the July 2025 interview, there were some tense moments: Owens needled Fuentes over why he had not married and started a family. She also objected to his belief that race determined a person’s abilities and to his claim that Black civilization was inherently inferior. But the tone was generally cordial, and they agreed that the pro-Israel lobby had an outsized influence on American politics.23
The so-called “generational run” of Nick Fuentes continues to gain momentum. A master of riffing, his podcast has become immensely popular, amassing a huge following. Profiles in major publications, including The Atlantic and The New York Times Magazine, have elevated the young podcaster as practically a household name.24 Fuentes champions a form of national populism with a strong focus on race. He envisages an American nation with a strong White ethnic core. Previously, he defended the system of Jim Crow, arguing that segregation was better for both Black and White Americans. On numerous occasions, he has stridently criticized the Black community, demonstrating no compunction in using the n-word. Still, not unlike other people of his generation, Fuentes occasionally adopts a Black oppositional aesthetic. As he explains, by unapologetically using the n-word, he seeks to demonstrate that he is the “realest nigga in America.”
His racism has not precluded Fuentes from collaborating with Black public figures. For instance, Fuentes accompanied the musician Ye (formerly known as Kanye West) to press conferences and advised him on his 2024 presidential campaign. Fuentes also worked with Sneako—an online influencer with a multiracial background—to produce social media content for Ye’s electoral bid. Adding more fuel to the fire, Ye and Fuentes appeared on Alex Jones’s Infowars program in early December of 2022. On the broadcast, Ye repeatedly expressed his admiration for Hitler. Fuentes has echoed this sentiment, once describing the German Führer as “really fucking cool.”
Even many of his detractors concede that Fuentes is a very talented young man whose oratory is persuasive. In an interview with Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson described Fuentes as “the single most influential commentator among young men.” After the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, Fuentes gained many followers, as more and more people tuned in to listen to his analysis on Middle Eastern affairs. Moreover, his strident denunciation of Israel and the larger Jewish community has endeared him to antisemites both on the political right and the political left. After all, his critique of Israel is arguably the rawest on the internet. He implicates a “Jewish oligarchy” as the motive force behind many of the problems that bedevil the world today. In light of his increasing notoriety, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D) announced his intention to introduce a resolution to condemn Fuentes. This pushback, however, seems to have only elevated Fuentes’s stature in the podcast sphere, as he has become a much sought-after guest on programs, many of which are operated by Black hosts.
Jesse Lee Peterson
Jesse Lee Peterson, a Black conservative, has established a reputation as a no-nonsense commentator on racial issues. With roughly half a million followers on social media, he has long counseled Black Americans to work hard and be self-reliant. His background is a classic bootstraps story. Born in 1949 in Alabama, Peterson was raised by his grandparents on a plantation, where his slave ancestors once worked. His early life was marked by family fragmentation. Growing up, Peterson recalled, anger consumed him. Throughout much of his life, he projected this anger everywhere, toward his mother, his father, his friends and teachers, and especially toward White people.25 According to Peterson, fatherlessness is the root cause of dysfunction in the Black community.
In 2016, Peterson launched The Fallen State, which has become a popular podcast. Prominent white nationalist figures, including David Duke, Richard Spencer, Mark Collett, Jared Taylor, Lilly Gaddis, Leonarda Jonie, and, of course, Nick Fuentes, have appeared on the program. In one episode, Peterson urged White Americans to carve out a separate territory in the United States for a White ethnostate. He invoked the example of South Africa as a fate that faced White Americans if they failed to do so.
Some of his critics have accused Peterson of outright white supremacy. His blackness, some suggest, reduces the shock value of his opinions that would be considered beyond the pale if a White person had articulated them.26 Peterson has indeed collaborated with white nationalists in the past. For example, in 2022, he spoke at the third America First Political Action Conference (AFPAC), which was organized by Nick Fuentes. The Anti-Defamation League opined that Peterson’s speech was one of the most inflammatory at the event, as he described Blacks as the destroyers of America.27
Podcasting: A Forum for Black–White Rapprochement
More and more Black conservatives are following the example of Peterson and are entering the podcasting world. The Hodgetwins—Keith and Kevin Hodge—launched their show in 2008 and have emerged as a popular team. With an estimated two million followers, they have carved out a significant niche in the podcast industry. As unabashed conservatives, they opposed the Black Lives Matter movement and have supported Donald Trump, though they do so no longer, following the U.S. strikes on Iran.
Myron Gaines, who founded The Fresh and Fit Podcast in 2020, has emerged as another popular Black podcaster. Born in Brooklyn, Gaines is of Sudanese descent and was raised Muslim. Originally, his podcast focused on issues related to the manosphere, a largely online movement that champions masculinity and opposes feminism. But after the October 7 Hamas attacks, Gaines has become a vocal critic of Israel. An avid conspiracy theorist, he implicates Israel as the main agent behind the 9/11 attacks and the JFK assassination. On an evening in January of 2026, Gaines, Fuentes, Sneako, Clavicular (a noted “looksmaxxer”), and Andrew Tate, along with his brother Tristan, sparked controversy when they attended a nightclub in Miami. The DJ played Ye’s controversial song “Heil Hitler,” during which some of the attendees appeared to perform Nazi salutes.28
The format of podcasting has expanded the boundaries of acceptable discourse, or at least has made the articulation of unpopular and controversial ideas more feasible than in the past.
Perhaps one reason why Black podcasters seem amenable to Fuentes is because of the racial facts on the ground. After all, any program of forced racial expulsion and separation does not seem feasible in contemporary multiracial America. Fuentes seems to recognize this and recently called for a united populist front to include the political left, which urged to jettison its advocacy of open borders and wokeism. For the political right, he counsels abandoning their reverence for the free market.29
It can be inferred that Fuentes favors a form of national socialism not unlike historic fascism. For many of the young men of Generation Z, who face social isolation and an uncertain economic future, such a program is attractive. Fuentes has managed to craft his message is such way that it resonates with young followers of various ethnic and racial backgrounds.
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Whereas previously, impolitic rhetoric would often be regarded as hateful and deserving of condemnation, the irreverent nature of podcasting discourse tends to be disarming. Nick Fuentes occasionally praises Hitler and the Third Reich, but in such an ironic fashion that it does not provoke the kind of ostracism that such pronouncements would have done in the past when delivered in a more serious demeanor.
Unlike old-school white nationalist movements, this contemporary movement endeavors to create a self-sustaining counterculture, which includes a distinct vernacular, memes, symbols, and a number of blogs and alternative media outlets. Taking a page from Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals, young activists have applied his tactics to conservative causes.30
The format of podcasting has expanded the boundaries of acceptable discourse, or at least has made the articulation of unpopular and controversial ideas more feasible than in the past. For many years, espousing positions such as white supremacy and antisemitism carried potentially high costs, often resulting in some type of sanction or cancellation.
Today, however, some controversial podcasters have enormous followings, enabling them to make substantial earnings and wield significant influence in politics and culture. From its humble origins, podcasting is now eclipsing much of the legacy media. Moreover, podcasting encourages frank and unfiltered discourse. This feature has done much to forge a rapprochement across various political orientations, including white nationalists, Black conservatives, far left activists, and anti-Zionists.